• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

America’s Dumbest War, Ever

It takes a special kind of logic to assume that invading sovereign nations is only good for big corporations.
 
I would have thought it would be far simpler and quicker to list the SMART wars the US has instigated (not that there have been any)
 
jonny5 said:
Letter, from a soldier to his father, as published at America



I think its sad that the media, the President, congress, americans, have forgotten Afghanistan. Recession, fiscal cliffs, unemployment, debt, kate middletons breasts, are far less important than american citizens who are fighting and dying in a war without a point, and whose commander makes jokes on comedy shows, while congress flips pancakes to win votes.

Until we get responsible people in office, the best thing to do is immediate withdrawl. 343 Coalition soldiers have died in Afghanistan this year. No one seems to care but their families and friends.
Click to expand...

I agree with Ron Paul on this issue, you can march right in and you can march right out

"There really is nothing for us to win in Afghanistan. Our mission has morphed from apprehending those who attacked us, to apprehending those who threaten or dislike us for invading their country, to remaking an entire political system and even a culture … This is an expensive, bloody, endless exercise in futility. Not everyone is willing to admit this just yet. But every second they spend in denial has real costs in lives and livelihoods … Many of us can agree on one thing, however. Our military spending in general has grown way out of control."
 
OldWorldOrder said:
It takes a special kind of logic to assume that invading sovereign nations is only good for big corporations.
Click to expand...


No, it requires simple common sense. Your children die in wars. Your tax dollars are wasted in wars. Monies that could develop infrastructure are wasted in wars. The Big Corporations including Energy (wars run on energy), armaments (bombs, bullets, planes, tanks, chemicals, textiles, all metals, electronics) Corporations profit handsomely. When over half of a Nation's budget is spent on the Military and the Corporations it supports, and all the deaths come from the masses, it is difficult to discern the good for the masses. In stark contrast, it is obvious to discern the "good for big corporations" and that very bigness is what must be checked.
"
 
Lots of corporations profit handsomely. Do you know who runs and works in corporations?

People.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Lots of corporations profit handsomely. Do you know who runs and works in corporations?

People.
Click to expand...


Then you must be saying, "War is good business," let's have more of it, because it makes jobs for people. You are supporting the wars. OK, but don't try to make it sound innocent. It is ugly, evil policy. Just say, let's gin up some more chaos, mayhem, destruction and death. Don't be shy.
 
DaveFagan said:
Then you must be saying, "War is good business," let's have more of it, because it makes jobs for people. You are supporting the wars. OK, but don't try to make it sound innocent. It is ugly, evil policy. Just say, let's gin up some more chaos, mayhem, destruction and death. Don't be shy.
Click to expand...

As usual, we're on to blaming corporations, and ignoring the people who actually command these wars. And the media who ignore them.
 
jonny5 said:
As usual, we're on to blaming corporations, and ignoring the people who actually command these wars. And the media who ignore them.
Click to expand...



I am blaming the Corporations that can afford to buy Congressman. We have the best Congressmen that money can buy. The money that influences the direction that Congress moves is the real issue. I can't afford to buy a Congressman, can you. It's time to deal with reality, not a hypothetical, utopian government operating for "truth and justice, the American way." Real world issues.
 
Misterveritis said:
We are still paying the price for FDR's democratic socialism. This is one war we must win.
Click to expand...

There hasn't been a war on that since the 1940s. It wasn't even democratic socialism, for God's sake. It was welfare liberalism.
 
jonny5 said:
Letter, from a soldier to his father, as published at America



I think its sad that the media, the President, congress, americans, have forgotten Afghanistan. Recession, fiscal cliffs, unemployment, debt, kate middletons breasts, are far less important than american citizens who are fighting and dying in a war without a point, and whose commander makes jokes on comedy shows, while congress flips pancakes to win votes.

Until we get responsible people in office, the best thing to do is immediate withdrawl. 343 Coalition soldiers have died in Afghanistan this year. No one seems to care but their families and friends.
Click to expand...

I don't think that it's that the American people has forgotten about Afghanistan.

Rather, I think that the American people have realized that despite being a representative democracy they are proven to be powerless to stop it, especially when so many politicians and their corporate contributors are profiting from it off the taxpayers' backs.
 
jonny5 said:
Letter, from a soldier to his father, as published at America



I think its sad that the media, the President, congress, americans, have forgotten Afghanistan. Recession, fiscal cliffs, unemployment, debt, kate middletons breasts, are far less important than american citizens who are fighting and dying in a war without a point, and whose commander makes jokes on comedy shows, while congress flips pancakes to win votes.

Until we get responsible people in office, the best thing to do is immediate withdrawl. 343 Coalition soldiers have died in Afghanistan this year. No one seems to care but their families and friends.
Click to expand...

As an airborne infantry afghanistan vet, I 100% agree. When I came home back to Texas someone asked me: "How was Iraq?" I then replied "I was in Afghanistan." He then got an astonished look on his face "..We're still in Afghanistan!!??"

I've said it once on here, and I'll say it again. This war is unwinnable, and we are wasting our time and resources.
 
Fiddytree said:
There hasn't been a war on that since the 1940s. It wasn't even democratic socialism, for God's sake. It was welfare liberalism.
Click to expand...
We see its extension in the one term Marxist's wrecking the US economy. FDR kept things bad. Obama is doing the same.
Welfare leiberalism? Is that just another name for democratic socialism?
 
Misterveritis said:
Welfare leiberalism? Is that just another name for democratic socialism?
Click to expand...

Only to those who wish to be simple-minded about it. It is quite constrained in output and in intentions in comparison with the Democratic Socialists. FDR's actions nullified the impact of the socialists and democratic socialists for decades. The movement was astoundingly crushed.
 
DaveFagan said:
Then you must be saying, "War is good business," let's have more of it, because it makes jobs for people. You are supporting the wars. OK, but don't try to make it sound innocent. It is ugly, evil policy. Just say, let's gin up some more chaos, mayhem, destruction and death. Don't be shy.
Click to expand...

Oh it's ugly? Evil? I'm more Hobbesian about it.

Also, for total disclosure's sake- in case you want to say something and in retrospect put your foot in your mouth- I'm an 8 year Army veteran with two Iraq deployments and a rough one in Mindanao. Now I'm a DoD contractor and it pays well and I went on a third trip to Iraq last summer. You don't like the wars. Some people do. Trying to make a moralistic stand? Good luck. If you want to take a rational approach, understand that the US' high standard of living throughout the second half of the 20th century is due to war. Understand that your comfort was won via war.
 
Misterveritis said:
We see its extension in the one term Marxist's wrecking the US economy. FDR kept things bad. Obama is doing the same.
Welfare leiberalism? Is that just another name for democratic socialism?
Click to expand...

Every time you try to pretend Obama is a Marxist, the internet laughs at you.
 
Fiddytree said:
Only to those who wish to be simple-minded about it. It is quite constrained in output and in intentions in comparison with the Democratic Socialists. FDR's actions nullified the impact of the socialists and democratic socialists for decades. The movement was astoundingly crushed.
Click to expand...
And every mighty oak began as a small acorn.

FDR did what he could to advance democratic socialism. He prolonged the Depression with his policies. And yet the dumb masses kept voging him back into office. It seems that the one term Marxist is hoping to replicate FDR's achievement. Of course he did need to significantly increase the welfare rolls, increase misery by bankrupting coal companies and therefore increasing the cost of energy, and then give his supporters stuff. Obamaphone anybody?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Every time you try to pretend Obama is a Marxist, the internet laughs at you.
Click to expand...
Why do you believe it is pretend? He as much told us that he spent his formative years surrounded by Marxists, Communists, socialists, Progressives, radicals, and terrorists. Those are the people he is most comfortable with. Their doctrines are his doctrines.

Every time you try to pretend to be clever the Internet chuckles at your expense. Chuckles.
 
Aside from the fact that you have just strung a series of strange talking points into one thought, you do know you have just essentially implicated almost the entire Republican Party as complicit or advancing democratic socialism, don't you?
 
Fiddytree said:
There hasn't been a war on that since the 1940s. It wasn't even democratic socialism, for God's sake. It was welfare liberalism.
Click to expand...

YOu are both wrong WWII was necessary.
 
Misterveritis said:
Why do you believe it is pretend? He as much told us that he spent his formative years surrounded by Marxists, Communists, socialists, Progressives, radicals, and terrorists. Those are the people he is most comfortable with. Their doctrines are his doctrines.
Click to expand...

So how do you know he chose to be a Marxist instead of a socialist or progressive?
 
wolfman24 said:
YOu are both wrong WWII was necessary.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I was referring to the conflict over the emerging Welfare state.
 
Misterveritis said:
And every mighty oak began as a small acorn.

FDR did what he could to advance democratic socialism. He prolonged the Depression with his policies. And yet the dumb masses kept voging him back into office. It seems that the one term Marxist is hoping to replicate FDR's achievement. Of course he did need to significantly increase the welfare rolls, increase misery by bankrupting coal companies and therefore increasing the cost of energy, and then give his supporters stuff. Obamaphone anybody?
Click to expand...

Why should the U.S. lower/middle class subsidize the military industrial complex, national security state when the profits go primarily to multinationals and their stockholders, the 1%?

The military industrial complex controls your CNN/FOX/NBC/CBS/ABC and the NYT, LATimes, Wash. Post., and the news wire services AP/Reuters found on Drudge and Huffington.

That is not freedom.
 
Fiddytree said:
Aside from the fact that you have just strung a series of strange talking points into one thought, you do know you have just essentially implicated almost the entire Republican Party as complicit or advancing democratic socialism, don't you?
Click to expand...
Please consider using the quote function. It is not very good but it is better than nothing.

Convince me that your points have merit.
 
spud_meister said:
So how do you know he chose to be a Marxist instead of a socialist or progressive?
Click to expand...
This is a great question. Marxist fundamentals just naturally flow from Obama's nature. Steep, progressive taxes, class warfare, wealth redistribution, dictatorship of the proles (public and private sector unions) just come naturally to the one term Marxist.

On the other hand there is so much overlap between socialism, Progressivism and Marxism that we do not need to label it as just one thing, other than for the sake of convenience. Do you prefer one term Marxist or one term Marxist, Communist, socialist, Progressive, radical, terrorist?

Just checking. When everyone understands "Statist" we can switch to that. Of course it will have to all be retrospective because I do not intend to ever again speak of him after he is defeated in November.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom