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Thread: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    It is an excellent point. We will need to change the majority in the Senate from Democrat to Republican and retain the House.

    Thanks for the nice wish. If my luck holds we have a slim chance of retaining a nation that can once again return to prosperity with less danger of the loss of our liberty.
    Changing from the Tweedledumocrats to the Tweedledeeblicans isn't going to make a big difference, either. We've tried that before.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    FYI, Misterveritis' entire argument here is based upon something is that is qualitatively untrue.

    So take it with a grain of salt. And I don't even like liberals.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Panopticon View Post
    rofl, theyre still telling lies to themselves about this???


    The senior intelligence official responsible for Tony Blair's notorious dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction proposed using the document to mislead the public about the significance of Iraq's banned weapons.

    Sir John Scarlett, who as head of the Joint Intelligence Committee was placed "in charge" of writing the September 2002 dossier, sent a memo to Blair's foreign affairs adviser referring to "the benefit of obscuring the fact that in terms of WMD Iraq is not that exceptional".

    The memo, released under the Freedom of Information Act, has been described as one of the most significant documents on the dossier yet published.*

    Memo reveals intelligence chief's bid to fuel fears of Iraqi WMDs | UK news | The Observer

    Despite warnings from the German Federal Intelligence Service questioning the authenticity of the claims, the US Government utilized them to build a rationale for military action in the lead up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, including in the 2003 State of the Union address, where President Bush said "we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs

    Curveball's German intelligence handlers saw him as "crazy ... out of control", his friends called him a "congenital liar", and a US physician working for the Defense Department who travelled to Germany to take blood samples seeking to discover if Anthrax spores were present was stunned to find the defector had shown up for medical tests with a "blistering hangover",[19] and he "might be an alcoholic".[20]


    Curveball (informant) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Italy: We Warned U.S. On WMD Docs


    Italian secret services warned the United States in January 2003 that a dossier about a purported Iraq-Niger uranium deal were fake, an Italian lawmaker said Thursday after a briefing by an Italian intelligence chief.

    Italy: We Warned U.S. On WMD Docs - CBS News

    European and French intelligence reports

    French intelligence informed the United States a year before President Bush's State of the Union address that the allegation could not be supported with hard evidence.[9]*

    wiki
    Outside of the US the world knows that the excuse to go into Iraq was based on a questionable document lifted from a student thesis as intelligence.

    You've probably never heard of Robin Cook and Dr David Kelly?

    On WMD's and in particular chemical weapons,*In an interview with BBC in June 2004, David Kay, former head of the Iraq Survey Group, made the following comment:

    "Anyone out there holding – as I gather Prime Minister Blair has recently said – the prospect that, in fact, the Iraq Survey Group is going to unmask actual weapons of mass destruction, [is] really delusional."
    In 2002, Scott Ritter, a former UNSCOM weapons inspector heavily criticized the Bush administration and media outlets for using the testimony of alleged former Iraqi nuclear scientist Khidir Hamza, who defected from Iraq in 1994, as a rationale for invading Iraq;

    We seized the entire records of the Iraqi Nuclear program, especially the administrative records. We got a name of everybody, where they worked, what they did, and the top of the list, Saddam's "Bombmaker" [which was the title of Hamza's book, and earned the nickname afterwards] was a man named Jafar Dhia Jafar, not Khidir Hamza, and if you go down the list of the senior administrative personnel you will not find Hamza's name in there. In fact, we didn't find his name at all. Because in 1990, he didn't work for the Iraqi nuclear program. He had no knowledge of it because he worked as a kickback specialist for Hussein Kamel in the Presidential Palace.

    He goes into northern Iraq and meets up with Ahmad Chalabi. He walks in and says, I'm Saddam's "Bombmaker". So they call the CIA and they say, "We know who you are, you're not Saddam's 'Bombmaker', go sell your story to someone else." And he was released, he was rejected by all intelligence services at the time, he's a fraud.

    And here we are, someone who the CIA knows is a fraud, the US Government knows is a fraud, is allowed to sit in front of the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and give testimony as a expert witness. I got a problem with that, I got a problem with the American media, and I've told them over and over and over again that this man is a documentable fraud, a fake, and yet they allow him to go on CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, and testify as if he actually knows what he is talking about.

    On June 4, 2003, U.S. Senator Pat Roberts announced that the U.S. Select Committee on Intelligence that he chaired would, as a part of its ongoing oversight of the intelligence community, conduct a Review of intelligence on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. On July 9, 2004, the Committee released the Senate Report of Pre-war Intelligence on Iraq. On July 17, 2003, the British Prime Minister Tony Blair said in an address to the U.S. Congress, that history would forgive the United States and United Kingdom, even if they were wrong about weapons of mass destruction. He still maintained that "with every fiber of instinct and conviction" Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction. He was wrong.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So you don't actually know what you're talking about. That's awesome, thanks, 18 term Federalist. Don't get mad, though.
    Where are we today? You claim to know and I claim to know. I cannot prove my point of view. Neither can you.

    On to the next subject.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Well since the latter option is a fictional person that does not exist in the real world the answer is niether.
    Jet, are you finally agreeing with Conservative that the one term Marxist, flexible with our enemies, president Barack Hussein Obama, is nothing more than an empty suit?

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    No, you said they changed when the Venerable Barack Hussein Obama, the President and Commander-in-Chief, took over. I know better. And you're admittedly just guessing.
    Well, you 15 minute Roundhead, what's likely doesn't really matter when one knows. And you don't.
    Marxists are very aggressive, by the way, and Salafists hate them, so actually Bush would probably be more likely than a Marxist, if one somehow got in charge of the country.
    I have been involved since 2005. I pay attention to our customer, the soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines. You and I agree that the rules of engagement have changed. While the military fought the insurgents the ROE were tight. Now they are so tight we hardly fight back.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Changing from the Tweedledumocrats to the Tweedledeeblicans isn't going to make a big difference, either. We've tried that before.
    Then you won't mind if we try it just this one more time. After all, from your perspective it will make no difference. So let's agree to replace Democrats and RINOS with conservative Republicans.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    FYI, Misterveritis' entire argument here is based upon something is that is qualitatively untrue.

    So take it with a grain of salt. And I don't even like liberals.
    Pull out the ROE beginning in 2005 and up to today. Let's all see them so we can compare just how difficult it has become under the Obama Regime. It should be easy for you to prove, after all you are claiming you know because you have them all.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Joechilli View Post
    Outside of the US the world knows that the excuse to go into Iraq was based on a questionable document lifted from a student thesis as intelligence.

    You've probably never heard of Robin Cook and Dr David Kelly?

    On WMD's and in particular chemical weapons,*In an interview with BBC in June 2004, David Kay, former head of the Iraq Survey Group, made the following comment:

    "Anyone out there holding – as I gather Prime Minister Blair has recently said – the prospect that, in fact, the Iraq Survey Group is going to unmask actual weapons of mass destruction, [is] really delusional."
    In 2002, Scott Ritter, a former UNSCOM weapons inspector heavily criticized the Bush administration and media outlets for using the testimony of alleged former Iraqi nuclear scientist Khidir Hamza, who defected from Iraq in 1994, as a rationale for invading Iraq;

    We seized the entire records of the Iraqi Nuclear program, especially the administrative records. We got a name of everybody, where they worked, what they did, and the top of the list, Saddam's "Bombmaker" [which was the title of Hamza's book, and earned the nickname afterwards] was a man named Jafar Dhia Jafar, not Khidir Hamza, and if you go down the list of the senior administrative personnel you will not find Hamza's name in there. In fact, we didn't find his name at all. Because in 1990, he didn't work for the Iraqi nuclear program. He had no knowledge of it because he worked as a kickback specialist for Hussein Kamel in the Presidential Palace.

    He goes into northern Iraq and meets up with Ahmad Chalabi. He walks in and says, I'm Saddam's "Bombmaker". So they call the CIA and they say, "We know who you are, you're not Saddam's 'Bombmaker', go sell your story to someone else." And he was released, he was rejected by all intelligence services at the time, he's a fraud.

    And here we are, someone who the CIA knows is a fraud, the US Government knows is a fraud, is allowed to sit in front of the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and give testimony as a expert witness. I got a problem with that, I got a problem with the American media, and I've told them over and over and over again that this man is a documentable fraud, a fake, and yet they allow him to go on CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, and testify as if he actually knows what he is talking about.

    On June 4, 2003, U.S. Senator Pat Roberts announced that the U.S. Select Committee on Intelligence that he chaired would, as a part of its ongoing oversight of the intelligence community, conduct a Review of intelligence on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. On July 9, 2004, the Committee released the Senate Report of Pre-war Intelligence on Iraq. On July 17, 2003, the British Prime Minister Tony Blair said in an address to the U.S. Congress, that history would forgive the United States and United Kingdom, even if they were wrong about weapons of mass destruction. He still maintained that "with every fiber of instinct and conviction" Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction. He was wrong.
    Good deceptions have that effect. I was an intelligence officer for most of my 20 year Army career. I also had some responsibilities for developing our deception doctrine. It was valuable to have one's opponents sift through all of the difficult, conflicting information in order to come, on their own, to the conclusions the deceivers want them to hold. Once your opponent is convinced, through his own brilliance, that Fact "A" is true and Fact "B" is untrue conflicting facts that counter those views are filtered out.

    I believe that we became convinced because the scientists and program managers responsible for biological, chemical and nuclear weapons programs were deceiving Hussein. In turn we were deceived as well.

    On the plus side it has a happy ending. Iraq has an opportunity to grow into a free, and thriving country in the heart of the Middle East.

  10. #270
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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Pull out the ROE beginning in 2005 and up to today. Let's all see them so we can compare just how difficult it has become under the Obama Regime. It should be easy for you to prove, after all you are claiming you know because you have them all.
    Stop posting, you're embarrassing yourself, you 89 term Knickerbocker.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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