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Thread: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Vietnam is a trading partner with the U.S. and there are 2 non-stop flights a day to Hanoi from L.A. I'de say they have become a model country compared to Iraq.
    The shiite Govt. has closer ties with Tehran than Washington which is not surprising since most of them are Iraqi exiles who grew up in Iran. They don't have Alqeada because they left when our troops did. No more targets. I irony of the Iraqi blunder is not that it was a hopeless quagmire (like Vietnam) but we were actually helping our only REAL enemy in the region, by defeating Iran's mortal enemy. It was like poking a stick into the hornets nest...and then hanging around while the swarm stings you silly.
    Honestly, this is some of the worst analysis I've ever read.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Honestly, this is some of the worst analysis I've ever read.
    The truth hurts I guess.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    One must match the goals to our needs. Our goal should be to deny safe haven to terrorists. I do not know the right troop levels to accomplish that. But the professionals do.
    The right number of troops is zero. Drones will do a better job on terrorists than troops. We need to change tactics. Troops act as targets and recruiting agents for the enemy, they actually make things worse.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    One must match the goals to our needs. Our goal should be to deny safe haven to terrorists. I do not know the right troop levels to accomplish that. But the professionals do.
    And you proposal for Afghanistan is.....?

    The most successful COIN operation in history really isn't applicable here. I don't see how we can take the Malayian Pacification and take its lessons and use them in Afghanistan. To some degree you have to change the culture in Afghanistan towards moderate to liberal Islam for this to work. And that's just a starting point.

    I don't see how Afghanistan can work as a Democracy. Especially a very poor one.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    How do you know that?

    Is Afghanistan a safe haven? Is there any price we should pay for safety?
    Because I was there, and it's exceptionally obvious.


    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Do you love your country so little that you want her to be safe for only a little while? Why do you put a time limit on the security of the nation?
    This is the exact patriotic garbage that they tell you so that you continue to beat the war drum. There is nothing we're doing in afghanistan that is making us, in america a single bit safer. All we're doing is shedding american blood in vain. I love my fellow citizens, and I cherish their lives and safeties, not some ideal based solely on pride and not tangible facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Defeatists will always be defeated. Afghanistan is not so important. If the Taliban and Al qaeda were not there then we would have no reason to be there either. We fight the enemy where he is. You should know that.
    More with the BS pride instead of logic and reason. Please, try to quantify to me how us being in afghanistan makes us safer, and please, use citation.

    The taliban have never even waged terrorist attacks against us. Their sole goal in life is to get our asses off their soil. They can have that rotten property, the entire country smells of death.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 10-02-12 at 04:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    If we are not prepared to stay there as long as it takes to deny the Taliban and Al qaeda a safe haven then we shall lose and they shall win.


    Enlighten me please.


    We should go where are enemy is. We should kill him and break his things until he stops waging war against us. Did you think this was going to be easy?



    It seems you know as little about business as you do about war.



    One has to wonder where all the defeatists come from. Is your life so dear that you would purchase it with Sharia chains?
    "If we are not prepared to stay there as long as it takes to deny the Taliban and Al qaeda a safe haven then we shall lose and they shall win."

    You werent prepared to do that in Iraq, you wont do it in Afghanistan.

    By the way the Insurgent killings still go on in that country, you got to a point where you couldnt change the country from what it was and decided to leave rather than waste more blood in the cycle of violence.

    The same will happen in Afghanistan. In Iraq this September, The month saw 182 civilians, 88 police and 95 soldiers killed in attacks across Iraq, official figures show.

    BBC News - Iraq attacks: September 'deadliest month for two years'

    "We should go where are enemy is. We should kill him and break his things until he stops waging war against us. Did you think this was going to be easy?"

    Your simply not doing that, Pakistan is the perfect example and to be honest I don't think you could fight on all the different fronts anyway. Not that alot of bother has gone into actually understanding the countries where AQ has managed to set up.



    On Guerilla war:
    How could a bunch of Yankee colonial settlers take on the might of the British Army?
    How could an impoverished people in the Desert take on the British, Russian, and US Army?
    How could a bunch of impoverished Irish civillians take on the British Army?
    How could a guy like Fidel Castro or Che Guevara come to power?
    How could Mao Zedong come to power?

    This type of warfare has been used effectivley countless times throughout history, and throughout Afghanistans history.


    Guerrilla warfare is a form of irregular warfare in which a small group of combatants including, but not limited to, armed civilians (or "irregulars") use military tactics, such as ambushes, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, the element of surprise, and extraordinary mobility to harass a larger and less-mobile traditional army, or strike a vulnerable target, and withdraw almost immediately.



    A better term to have been used for this conflict would have been - Asymmetric warfare which is war between belligerents whose relative military power differs significantly, or whose strategy or tactics differ significantly.

    Terrain can be used as a force multiplier by the smaller force and as a force inhibitor against the larger force. Such terrain is called difficult terrain.
    The locals have the advantage against the foreign military. The other multipliers are population, local knowledge, ability to take casulties, influence on outside media. The hearts and minds of the local population are the key factor in winning such a war.

    Look at the populations reaction to AQ in Benghazi after the killing of the US Ambassador:
    BBC News - Libya: Islamist militia bases stormed in Benghazi

    This is also a new type of enemy which requires a flexible approach:

    "Unless transnational violent Islamism is first nationalized and then
    transformed in both ideological and organizational terms through its
    co-optation into the mainstream political process, it is highly unlikely
    to become amenable to persuasion. It is, indeed, unlikely to be susceptible
    to any external influence. It is even less likely to be crushed by
    repression, which it actually thrives on. In this sense, the most radical
    and the most perilous supranational al-Qaeda-inspired breed of violent
    Islamism...its converts do not defend a territory,
    nation or state. They fight for an all-embracing mode of existence,
    a way of life, a holistic and global system through the establishment
    of the ‘direct rule of God on earth’ as they genuinely
    believe."

    E Stepanova:

    http://books.sipri.org/files/RR/SIPRIRR23.pdf

    "It seems you know as little about business as you do about war."

    Yeah thanks Mistervertis Hawk, and what do you know?

    "One has to wonder where all the defeatists come from. Is your life so dear that you would purchase it with Sharia chains?"

    This isnt WW2 so quit the melodrama

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Yeah...you are right. It's better to make bad decisions...stick with them even though everyone knows they are bad...until you have no choice but to make a new decision and try to, somehow, spin the bad one to be...if not good, then not so bad. That's the liberal way. A prime example is the recent events in Libya.
    You mean like invading Iraq over WMD's and then changing the reason for the invasion after finding no WMD's?

    People don't buy the idea that Republicans are experts in foreign policy. You can thank Bush and his team for blowing that perception away.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    One must match the goals to our needs. Our goal should be to deny safe haven to terrorists. I do not know the right troop levels to accomplish that. But the professionals do.
    The professionals are starting to say openly that our soldiers sent to fight in Afghanistan is one thing...sending them over there to get murdered....shot in the back by supposed Allies is another.

    It's a **** hole. The war was lost a long time ago. When you can't even attempt to accomplish your mission (transition to Afghan forces) without getting gunned down by the very soldiers you're training the gig is up.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Let's see. The USA is not an imperialistic Nation, but we have military bases in about 140 Countries. Why not 141?
    Sure it's imperialistic. Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    It's sad, but understandable that you hold this view, because your job as a contractor benefits directly from this situation. For the rest of us who can view the situation objectively, it's madness.

    It's people like you that are the reason we're in this situation in the first place. War is a business, and business is goooood.
    Sure it is. You've benefitted handsomely, too. Enjoy!

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    You mean like invading Iraq over WMD's and then changing the reason for the invasion after finding no WMD's?

    People don't buy the idea that Republicans are experts in foreign policy. You can thank Bush and his team for blowing that perception away.
    Like most liberals, you've seized on one issue as the reason for attacking Saddam and ignore the rest. If I remember correctly, there were some 25 or so reasons given by Bush BEFORE the invasion. WMD's was just one of them.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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