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Thread: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I was hoping it was pretend for your sake. It seems like you don't know what a Marxist is. Perhaps you should learn?
    I think the difference between us is as simple as the difference between one able to recognize the mightly oak in the acorn as opposed to needing the oak to be at its full height before recognizing it. There is no shame in it. Most people are unable to discern the beginnings of things. I do not believe this can be learned. One can see the beginnings or one cannot. It may be a failure of imagination. I have given this thought for a very long time. As an intelligence officer things were clear to me that others were unable to discern. For me it was clear. It was similar to looking at an incomplete mosaic and seeing the completed picture. Others were stuck looking at small, individual pieces of broken glass.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    So you don't know what a Marxist is. Okay.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So you don't know what a Marxist is. Okay.
    Or perhaps I am right in my assessment of you.

    Obama knows what a Marxist is. He grew up surrounded by Marxists, Communists, socialists, Progressives, radicals and terrorists. He self selected to be around those people when he was old enough to choose.

    It is true that I am a novice when it comes to Marxism. I have read ony three of Radical Karl's popular writings. He was prolific. His collected writings fill 50 volumes. In my opinion Radical Karl's most significant contributions to Radical Barrack's philosophy is his use of class warfare, wealth redistribution, a steeply progressive income tax, and his steady dictatorshipe of the proles (the public sector unions).

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    It's fine that you don't know, not everyone can know everything. I just don't know why you'd use a word that you don't know the meaning of. That's verisimilar (sorry, don't know what 'verisimilar' means, I hope it makes sense in this context).
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    It's fine that you don't know, not everyone can know everything. I just don't know why you'd use a word that you don't know the meaning of. That's verisimilar (sorry, don't know what 'verisimilar' means, I hope it makes sense in this context).
    Don't worry your pretty head about it. I will do the heavy lifting for you.

    Hopefully we will defeat the one term Marxist in another month and be done with him.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    You dropped that dumb **** on your foot.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    If the war against the Taliban and Al quada is unwinnable in Afghanistan what do you recommend?
    I recommend not being there, not shedding American blood, and not wasting American tax dollars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Shall we declare it a safe haven for terrorists?
    I say we analyze the reasons the terrorists attack us in the first place. It probably has something to do with decades of imperialism in the middle east. We can't put a soldier on every mountaintop and every street corner to ensure there are no safe-havens for terrorism. Instead we can fight the fundamental causes of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    What are the war's objectives? Why are we there?
    The official statement is to bring freedom to the people of afghanistan, and or as revenge for 9/11. Neither of which make any sense, nor are actually being accomplished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Why did the one term Marxist delcare a departure timetable?
    Because it makes no sense for us to be there. The one term "marxist" president is about to become a two-term president for supporting these very ideas. The majority of Americans have lost their taste for war, and our representatives should embody that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Is it unwinnable with today's "leadership" in the White House and in the field? Or is it unwinnable no matter what the political objectives are and no matter who is "in charge".
    We're trying to fight a gorilla war against an ideology in a heavily mountainous country where the guerillas have the support of the locals. If history has taught us anything, it's that such a situation is unwinnable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Was WWII unwinnable? Until near the end, in 1944, it seemed like it.
    WWII was a straight forward combat war for territory, not a guerilla war against an ideology without the support of the locals.
    One of the many reasons Hitler didn't invade Switzerland, even though he really wanted to, was because of the insanely difficult nature of fighting such a fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I recommend not being there, not shedding American blood, and not wasting American tax dollars.
    So, declare Afghanistan is once again a safe-haven for terrorists. That is one approach. How did it work the last time?

    I say we analyze the reasons the terrorists attack us in the first place. It probably has something to do with decades of imperialism in the middle east. We can't put a soldier on every mountaintop and every street corner to ensure there are no safe-havens for terrorism. Instead we can fight the fundamental causes of it.
    Could it be Islam is the reason? How do we fight that fundamental cause of terrorism?

    The official statement is to bring freedom to the people of afghanistan, and or as revenge for 9/11. Neither of which make any sense, nor are actually being accomplished.
    Or more likely it is to deny Afghanistan as a safe haven for Al Quada and the Taliban. Would it help if the Obama Administration actually let the military fight?

    Because it makes no sense for us to be there. The one term "marxist" president is about to become a two-term president for supporting these very ideas. The majority of Americans have lost their taste for war, and our representatives should embody that.
    If you are correct that the political objective for the war in Afghanistan is to bring the people freedom then you are right. If the objective is to deny safe haven then you are not right. Americans have always loved being on the winning side. By denying the possibility of winning in Afghanistan of course our will has flagged. So bring all the forces home. Do it today. There is no need to wait.

    We're trying to fight a gorilla war against an ideology in a heavily mountainous country where the guerillas have the support of the locals. If history has taught us anything, it's that such a situation is unwinnable.
    Except that the Obama Administration rules of engagement means we are not fighting.
    You have learned the wrong lesson from the history you have been exposed to. A better lesson is to identify the right political objective, fit the strategy to the objective, match the means to the strategy and then persist.

    It is clear that we are unclear on the political objective. It is clear that we are unclear on the strategy. It is clear that we are unclear on the means. And the one term Marxist has already told our enemies that we are going to withdraw on a provided date.

    WWII was a straight forward combat war for territory, not a guerilla war against an ideology without the support of the locals.
    WWII was many things in many places. It was not so simple nor straightforward as you think. I chose it because of its enormous complexity, as well as the belief among many that it was unwinnable.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    So, declare Afghanistan is once again a safe-haven for terrorists. That is one approach. How did it work the last time?
    We've never once declared it a safe haven for terrorists. We put our dirty fingers into training the taliban to fight the russians, then left right after.

    Apparently you didn't listen to a word I said earlier. You simply can't put soldiers on every mountaintop and every street corner in the world. Team America World Police is a dangerous and bloody ideology to hold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Could it be Islam is the reason? How do we fight that fundamental cause of terrorism?
    Yes, it probably has nothing to do with dozens of american military bases scattered across the middle east, the supporting of oil cartels, invading numerous nations, and bombing of thousands of citizens.

    I'm sure they're all just fired up from reading their holy book. If we were to sit at home and mind our business, they'd be just blowin' us up left and right, eh?

    Tell me how many terrorist attacks Switzerland has had.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Or more likely it is to deny Afghanistan as a safe haven for Al Quada and the Taliban. Would it help if the Obama Administration actually let the military fight?
    The rules of engagement have nothing to do with it. We were losing this from the beginning. I was in afghanistan back when it was still the wild west. When you could level a village with JDAMs because of one enemy combatant in it. You act like when Obama came into office was the turning point where an otherwise successful campaign started going down the drain.

    If the great warlord Emperor Bush couldn't do it, no amount of ROE changes will help it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    If you are correct that the political objective for the war in Afghanistan is to bring the people freedom then you are right. If the objective is to deny safe haven then you are not right. Americans have always loved being on the winning side. By denying the possibility of winning in Afghanistan of course our will has flagged. So bring all the forces home. Do it today. There is no need to wait.
    Yes, americans are only sick of war because they don't believe we can win, not because it's been going on for ELEVEN years.

    If you're honestly suggesting bringing home the troops today, I agree 100%. What a refreshing idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Except that the Obama Administration rules of engagement means we are not fighting.
    You have learned the wrong lesson from the history you have been exposed to. A better lesson is to identify the right political objective, fit the strategy to the objective, match the means to the strategy and then persist.

    It is clear that we are unclear on the political objective. It is clear that we are unclear on the strategy. It is clear that we are unclear on the means. And the one term Marxist has already told our enemies that we are going to withdraw on a provided date.
    What I've learned from history is two-fold:
    - Afghanistan is an unconquerable nation. Ask Alexander, ask the Soviets, ask Genghis Khan, and take a look at our current situation.
    - For any campaign, ensure that the juice is worth the squeeze. In this situation by juice I mean American blood, and by squeeze I mean not a god damn thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    WWII was many things in many places. It was not so simple nor straightforward as you think. I chose it because of its enormous complexity, as well as the belief among many that it was unwinnable.
    No s***. I never claimed it was simple or straight forward. What I stated is that it is an entirely different type of warfare and is in this situation completely unrelated.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    but just look how well having invaded Afganistan turned out for the Soviets.

    And for all of the other nations and empires that invaded over the centuries.

    Don't we want a part of that success?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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