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14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

LaMidRighter said:
Ah, so the "Center for public education" is an unbiased source now?
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And why wouldn't they be? They served Bush, as well. What is the report do you think is "slanted"?

Do you understand that government agencies serve the nation and not the party?
 
LaMidRighter said:
Schools fall under the NEA, or National Educators Association which is a union. The NEA has a presence in every state, federal, and local school, every single one. Raises are not based upon merit but rather tenure and it's nearly impossible to fire a tenured teacher. Everyone already knows this.
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NO! A lot of people 'believing' something does not make that 'something' true.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Ah, so the "Center for public education" is an unbiased source now?
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We can see you do not like certain sources and attack them without mercy simply for who they are. We get that. You come across loud and clear and nobody can miss your hatred of them.

Perhaps we can actually move this up one level and you can tell us point by point the claims made in these sources you think are so bad and tell us what is wrong with them using verifiable sources and evidence that can be checked for its accuracy?
 
haymarket said:
We can see you do not like certain sources and attack them without mercy simply for who they are. We get that. You come across loud and clear and nobody can miss your hatred of them.

Perhaps we can actually move this up one level and you can tell us point by point the claims made in these sources you think are so bad and tell us what is wrong with them using verifiable sources and evidence that can be checked for its accuracy?
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1-14 are not accurate. What else do you want me to tell you?
 
Somerville said:
Can you show the readers verifiable proof that said statements are inaccurate? Or is this simply something that you 'know' is true?
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Go read the schools pages. Their reading lists are the same as public schools, the only difference is a small time percentage in religion classes. Besides, I don't have to disprove a flawed source making an inaccurate claim, you have to challenge that your source is accurate. And "cause I think so", or "because I like the source", and "The source says what I want it to" don't cut it.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Go read the schools pages. Their reading lists are the same as public schools, the only difference is a small time percentage in religion classes. Besides, I don't have to disprove a flawed source making an inaccurate claim, you have to challenge that your source is accurate. And "cause I think so", or "because I like the source", and "The source says what I want it to" don't cut it.
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Right, so you just make a claim and say "I don't have to prove it." Quality debate right there.
 
LaMidRighter said:
1-14 are not accurate. What else do you want me to tell you?
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Let us start with number 1 then. You can tell me why you claim that this is not "accurate" when it clearly gives the textbook that it comes out of.

1. Dinosaurs and humans probably hung out: "Bible-believing Christians cannot accept any evolutionary interpretation. Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years."—Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Right, so you just make a claim and say "I don't have to prove it." Quality debate right there.
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I'm not making the OP claim, I am explaining why it is wrong. The claimant has to prove their case.
 
Boycott CAFOs said:
This is horrific.

I almost want to cry. My niece lives in Louisiana. She's very smart, so I would hate for her potential to be so severely limited by such a tragic excuse for an education.

I hope they move back to California soon. Ugh. This **** makes me mad.

14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools | Mother Jones

Whew! Seems extreme. But perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised. Gov. Jindal, you remember, once tried to perform an exorcism on a college gal pal."
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On the one hand, the schools using these texts are religious, so it's not problematic in the sense that these teachings will be limited to the students of parents who choose this for their children. On the other hand, I don't think taxpayer money should go to schools like this, but the things is that MOST religious schools, regardless of whether or not they are in such programs, getting some kind of government funding. I went to Catholic school and we got government money, so non-Catholics who thought that what we learning was horrible were contributing to it.

I think that as long as science is taught along side stuff like this, it isn't problematic.
 
haymarket said:
Let us start with number 1 then. You can tell me why you claim that this is not "accurate" when it clearly gives the textbook that it comes out of.

1. Dinosaurs and humans probably hung out: "Bible-believing Christians cannot accept any evolutionary interpretation. Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years."—Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007
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All of these fourteen are according to change.org. These are not found in most of the school curricula as far as my own digging has produced. Again, flawed source using flawed sources. But hey, if you all want to keep going with this I'll bow out and let you all have fun at my state's expense.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Go read the schools pages. Their reading lists are the same as public schools, the only difference is a small time percentage in religion classes. Besides, I don't have to disprove a flawed source making an inaccurate claim, you have to challenge that your source is accurate. And "cause I think so", or "because I like the source", and "The source says what I want it to" don't cut it.
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This assertion is demonstrably false, which you'd know if you'd actually done the research you've claimed to do. For example, if you click on "curriculum" for the Northeast Baptist School in West Monroe, you get this (and only this):

"The Christian curriculum used at NBS is designed for traditional classroom teaching. Materials used include ABeka Book Publications and Bob Jones University Press Publications. Individual Education Plans are available for students with special learning needs."

Now, why do the names ABeka and Bob Jones sound familiar? Oh yeah! That's where all the quotes from the article come from.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Go read the schools pages. Their reading lists are the same as public schools, the only difference is a small time percentage in religion classes. Besides, I don't have to disprove a flawed source making an inaccurate claim, you have to challenge that your source is accurate. And "cause I think so", or "because I like the source", and "The source says what I want it to" don't cut it.
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Student/Parent Handbook Claiborne Christian

Core Values
The Bible - The Bible is the inspired Word of God and
provides guidance for how we should live. 2 Timothy 3:16
The school will:

 govern itself according to biblical principles.
look to the Bible as the main source of knowledge
for all subject areas.
 train teachers and students in a biblical worldview.
 integrate the Bible into all areas.
 provide an appropriate and challenging Bible
curriculum at each grade level.
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Definitely the way to learn math and science: I Kings 7:23-26 tells us that a cauldron 10 cubits in diameter is 30 cubits in circumference. The biblical literalists have lots and lots of explanations for just how this was possible.
Revelation 8:10
And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Leviticus 11
20 All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you.
21 There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground.
22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.
23 But all other winged creatures that have four legs you are to detest.

Northeast Baptist School

The Christian curriculum used at NBS is designed for traditional classroom teaching. Materials used include ABeka Book Publications and Bob Jones University Press Publications.
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That's a couple of the schools
 
LaMidRighter said:
All of these fourteen are according to change.org. These are not found in most of the school curricula as far as my own digging has produced. Again, flawed source using flawed sources. But hey, if you all want to keep going with this I'll bow out and let you all have fun at my state's expense.
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Are you attempting to use yourself as some sort of evidence here?

Are we to accept your word that you could not find the use of that particular book over a nationally published article subject to examination nation wide?

Is that what you are expecting us to do - defer to you?
 
Somerville said:
In what country did your children attend "unionized public school"? In the United States, I would say that such a statement is totally untrue.

Provide proof of your claim or maybe an apology would suffice.
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My children went to public school in Colorado. All the public schools were union. If you say my statements are untrue in the U.S., you haven't been paying attention or you're in a teachers' union and you're lying.
 
Patrickt said:
My children went to public school in Colorado. All the public schools were union. If you say my statements are untrue in the U.S., you haven't been paying attention or you're in a teachers' union and you're lying.
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Less than one fourth of the school districts in Colorado have union collective bargaining agreements.

Your statements are untrue

I am not now a teacher and have never been in a teachers union.

My only time standing at the front of a classroom was in another country.


The following statement has not a bit of truth in it, other than the one that they may have attended a school where some of the teachers were in a union.
My children attended a unionized public school. Things they were taught. The Holocaust never happened. Spelling, punctuation, structure, and grammar are unimportant. Communism is the only compassionate system. The earth will be destroyed by pollution in a few years. DDT causes cancer. And, my personal favorite, the Constitution is a living document and doesn't need to be followed.
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IF your children were in a class on one day in 1987, and if you lived in Aurora at the time, they might have heard a teacher, not a history, but an English, teacher deny the Holocaust.

from the American Jewish Committee on Holocaust Denial
1. The Denver Post of March 10, 1991 reportcd: "Dorothy Groteluschcn was
an English teacher. She was giving a lesson on the placement of adjective clauses,
and read from a textbook that said: 'The photographs that she [Margaret Bourke
White] took near the end of the war of the Nazi prison camp at Buchenwald serve
as a grim memorial to the victims of the Holocaust.'
"Court documents say Groteluschen told students, 'Now there is a reminder
of the Holocaust even in the grammar book,' adding that there is historical
disagreement about the Holocaust. 'Some say Holocaust, some say holohoax.'
". . . Her defense was 'I have for years automatically exposed my students to
the other side of controversial issues, such as evolution and abortion. . . . mhe
Holocaust is] a taboo topic, and I did not rcalize how taboo the topic was.. . No
reputable historian today is going to say that nothing happened. . . . What the
argument is over is the six million deaths.' "
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Your other statements have even less support

One may disagree with public education but your argument will be better supported if you use verifiable claims.

I always must ask those who hate America's public education system what they think about the reality that all of the nations with better educational results have centrally controlled educational systems.
 
MaggieD said:
Kidnapping, breaking families apart and punishing those who try to escape is part of slavery's bones, so to speak. I'm referring to how they were treated on the plantations who bought them. Unless owners were psychotic, they didn't destroy the very people they viewed as valuable assets. JMVHO.
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Under the British Empire, the people in Ireland had it worse. Their status was lower than the African Americans' status as property; the peasants, like most Europeans in the 19th Century, only lived on property. So when the crop failure caused a famine, the British owners of Ireland let one third of the Irish starve to death.
 
Meanwhile, at your everyday Chicago public school......
 
Erod said:
Meanwhile, at your everyday Chicago public school......
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A friend of mine sent me this image and said it was the new democrat logo.Perhaps it should be the Teacher's Union logo with the tax payers and students representing the stick figure who is bending.
Untitledattachment00107.jpg
 
PrometheusBound said:
Under the British Empire, the people in Ireland had it worse. Their status was lower than the African Americans' status as property; the peasants, like most Europeans in the 19th Century, only lived on property. So when the crop failure caused a famine, the British owners of Ireland let one third of the Irish starve to death.
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So slave owners were kinder than the British Empire... And Stalin was actually worse than Hitler. What's the point?

Slavery was horrible and a terrible blemish on our American History. That's the point. Talking about how most slaves were actually treated "kind" (puke) is insulting to the millions of people who were VICTIMS of slavery.

Another example of defending the oppressors and invalidating the oppressed. How will we ever move forward?...
 
I'm thinking that we have moved forward in ways accomplished before you were born. And I'm really pretty bored about the oppressions of slavery just as I am about the discrimination against Irish and Italians. Bored.
 
MadLib said:
Slave owners were good people and Klowns worked for the good of the community?
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the vast majority of humankind have lived in slave-owning societies; people born in them were neither inherently better or worse than ourselves, those who owned slaves simply had greater power to demonstrate evil or good. that being said, regardless of whether they did it for good motives, slaves were a valuable investment, and people took care of them in order to protect that investment; along with a definite cultural sense of paternalism.

and the Klan did indeed fill the social function that was described - they would chase down fathers who tried to abandon their families, for example. It doesn't make them not a terrorist association (which they certainly were), it just means that that is not all that they did.
 
cpwill said:
and the Klan did indeed fill the social function that was described - they would chase down fathers who tried to abandon their families, for example. It doesn't make them not a terrorist association (which they certainly were), it just means that that is not all that they did.
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and the same justification may be used for Hezbollah in today's world

Hezbollah social services are social development programs, hospitals, news services, and educational facilities organized by the Lebanese paramilitary group, Hezbollah. Social services have a central role in the party's programs. Most experts believe that Hezbollah's social and health programs are worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually. The American think tank Council on Foreign Relations also said that Hezbollah "is a major provider of social services, operating schools, hospitals, and agricultural services for thousands of Lebanese Shiites."

"Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings - it also boasts an extensive social development program. Hezbollah currently operates at least four hospitals, twelve clinics, twelve schools and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance program. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members"
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Somerville said:
and the same justification may be used for Hezbollah in today's world
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:shrug: Hezbollah does provide those services. It's part of what makes them so resilient.
 
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