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Thread: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

  1. #171
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    Re: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    She is flat out lying. Like I said, I live here and have never seen or heard any of it, not in local papers, not in person, nothing. Do you actually think you wouldn't see that in some form of media that's actually accredited if that were half true? It would be all over the place, so yes, MotherJones is lying.
    Indiana has a tea party governor, too, and he advertised a charter school that's done on line, saying teachers talk to the students. It turned out to be a total lie. There's a skype talk maybe once a month with a teacher. Governors lie all the time for corporations. And these voucher schools are nothing more than corporations making a profit.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I'm sorry, but that just ain't true. If you follow the link to the website set up by the guy who did the research on this, you'll find links to the websites of the 20 or so schools engaging in this crap. Here's one, for example:

    Curriculum - Northeast Baptist School, West Monroe, LA - A Christian school for Monroe, West Monroe, and northeast Louisiana - Northeast Baptist School, West Monroe, LA - A Christian School for Monroe, West Monroe, and Northeast Louisiana

    Note that the school actually says it's using the Bob Jones and ABeka materials that are quoted in the "wacky facts" list. I haven't looked at all of them, but that's one school at the very least, that is, in fact, going to be teaching bull**** to its students.
    First off, I just went through the school's curriculums and they are similar if not identical to the public equivalents. MotherJones if full of ****, and her sources are all partisan agendists. Change.org is not even close to an accredited source, and it further weakens the primary, face it, you don't like it because it supposedly weakens the NEA, you also don't like it because it's a Republican but realistically regardless of who is making this law it takes at risk students out of failing schools which teach the same thing that the public equivalents do.

    Oh, and there is nothing in that curriculum overview which proves a thing. I have already stated that the parochials add a religious content period, that is where those books are in use. Anything else?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    First off, I just went through the school's curriculums and they are similar if not identical to the public equivalents. MotherJones if full of ****, and her sources are all partisan agendists. Change.org is not even close to an accredited source, and it further weakens the primary, face it, you don't like it because it supposedly weakens the NEA, you also don't like it because it's a Republican but realistically regardless of who is making this law it takes at risk students out of failing schools which teach the same thing that the public equivalents do.

    Oh, and there is nothing in that curriculum overview which proves a thing. I have already stated that the parochials add a religious content period, that is where those books are in use. Anything else?
    Where's your proof it educates at risk children? Let's see the data.

    Charter schools: Finding out the facts: At a glance

    . . .

    Benefits for elementary school reading and middle school math. In one of Betts and Tang’s (2008) major conclusions, a majority of studies showed that charter schools performed better than traditional public school students in elementary school reading and middle school math. Similar results were found in the CREDO study. Where gains were evident, CREDO found, the success was generally in reading at the elementary school level and in reading and math at the middle school level.

    Drawbacks in high school. Conversely, Betts and Tang found that charter schools underperform in math and reading at the high school level. The CREDO study also found no evidence of a net gain during high school. In addition, students in “multi-level” (i.e., K–8 or 7–12) charter schools underperformed counterparts from traditional public schools in both reading and math.

    Some charters do better; the majority do the same or worse. CREDO also moved beyond individual student performance to examine the overall performance of charter schools across multiple subject areas. They found that while some charter schools do better than the traditional public schools that fed them, the majority do the same or worse. Almost one-fifth of charters (17 percent) performed significantly better (at the 95 percent confidence level) than the traditional public school. However, an even larger group of charters (37 percent) performed significantly worse in terms of reading and math. The remainder (46 percent) did not do significantly better or worse.

    Results vary from state to state. Most studies found that performance varied based on students’ location. It is noteworthy to compare state-by-state achievement with data on public school authorizers, though no study has directly analyzed the two.

    Conflicting results for specific groups. Few multi-site or multi-state studies examine how specific racial/ethnic groups perform in charter schools, and those that exist often show conflicting results.

    Given the research base, any explanation of why some charters succeed and others don’t is speculative. A possible answer is that successful charter schools use strategies that research has proven are often effective—smaller schools, smaller class size, more school time, and greater parent involvement. It is not known whether hallmarks of charter schools—such as a lack of collective bargaining or greater autonomy—affect achievement. It is an area that should be researched.

    Frederick Hess, education policy director at the American Enterprise Institute and a strong advocate for charter schools, notes that many charter sponsors rely on dedicated staff and a “missionary zeal” to succeed (Hess 2009). “The most successful charter ventures to date have been boutique-style operations that are extraordinarily reliant on talent and passion, philanthropic funding, and exhausting work schedules,” (Higgins and Hess 2009). Yet, he notes, the “means of bringing them to scale have been elusive.”

    Charter schools across the nation

    While charter school students enrolled just 3 percent of all public school students in 2008, the number of students (and schools) has risen dramatically in the past decade. In 1999, there were 1,542 charter schools with 349,642 students. By 2008, there were 4,618 charter schools with 1,407,817 students (National Alliance for Public Charter Schools 2009b).

    As the enrollment numbers have grown, some in the education community have become concerned. The RAND Corporation’s study (Zimmer et al 2009) attempted to evaluate whether charter schools are “skimming” the best students from local traditional public schools or re-segregating urban schools. RAND analyzed the academic achievement and demographic characteristics of students transferring into charter schools and found:

    Charter schools generally are not drawing the best students away from local traditional public schools. For example, previous test scores for students transferring into charter schools were near or below the averages for every location in the study. Only among white students did researchers find slightly higher test scores among those moving to charter schools.
    The racial composition of charter schools was similar to that of the traditional public schools the students previously attended.


    . . .
    Still not up to par with public education, but the score card is not final,yet.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Where's your proof it educates at risk children? Let's see the data.

    Charter schools: Finding out the facts: At a glance



    Still not up to par with public education, but the score card is not final,yet.
    Ah, so the "Center for public education" is an unbiased source now?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    First off, I just went through the school's curriculums and they are similar if not identical to the public equivalents. MotherJones if full of ****, and her sources are all partisan agendists. Change.org is not even close to an accredited source, and it further weakens the primary, face it, you don't like it because it supposedly weakens the NEA, you also don't like it because it's a Republican but realistically regardless of who is making this law it takes at risk students out of failing schools which teach the same thing that the public equivalents do.

    Oh, and there is nothing in that curriculum overview which proves a thing. I have already stated that the parochials add a religious content period, that is where those books are in use. Anything else?
    Yes. Thank you for asking:

    1) I have no problem with reducing the influence of the NEA, as I have numerous problems with how that organization operates. So please don't paw at me with your mindless assumptions. It just makes you sound like a partisan jackhole.

    2) I don't have a problem with this because it's coming from a Republican administration, I have a problem with it because creationism has no place in science classes, and anyone who thinks otherwise is doing a disservice to the children subject to their thinking.

    3) Are you denying:

    a) That several of the listed schools explicitly state that they're using Bob Jones/ABeka materials, or
    b) That those materials contain the quotes attributed to them?

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    Re: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Ah, so the "Center for public education" is an unbiased source now?

    And why wouldn't they be? They served Bush, as well. What is the report do you think is "slanted"?

    Do you understand that government agencies serve the nation and not the party?
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Schools fall under the NEA, or National Educators Association which is a union. The NEA has a presence in every state, federal, and local school, every single one. Raises are not based upon merit but rather tenure and it's nearly impossible to fire a tenured teacher. Everyone already knows this.

    NO! A lot of people 'believing' something does not make that 'something' true.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Ah, so the "Center for public education" is an unbiased source now?
    We can see you do not like certain sources and attack them without mercy simply for who they are. We get that. You come across loud and clear and nobody can miss your hatred of them.

    Perhaps we can actually move this up one level and you can tell us point by point the claims made in these sources you think are so bad and tell us what is wrong with them using verifiable sources and evidence that can be checked for its accuracy?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We can see you do not like certain sources and attack them without mercy simply for who they are. We get that. You come across loud and clear and nobody can miss your hatred of them.

    Perhaps we can actually move this up one level and you can tell us point by point the claims made in these sources you think are so bad and tell us what is wrong with them using verifiable sources and evidence that can be checked for its accuracy?
    1-14 are not accurate. What else do you want me to tell you?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    1-14 are not accurate. What else do you want me to tell you?

    Can you show the readers verifiable proof that said statements are inaccurate? Or is this simply something that you 'know' is true?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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