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Thread: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

  1. #71
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    Re: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Clownboy-
    nice to see you answered for Beaudreaux, who I was addressing for his use of 'clips' instead of magazines.
    Yup, I happen to know and respect him, your jab was inane.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I was a grunt in the Army.

    Back in my day the M16a1 had a few nicknames, Mattel toy was one of them, I am very much an adult.
    Good on ya, then you should know better to go after someone who served many more years than yourself with unit specific lingo.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Like I said, some will go to any length to believe what they want to. No proof the Marines were not 'hot', several vets saying they never stood a guard without ammo and in far less dangerous places.
    Actually, I've heard that quite a bit over the years from folks in the different vets groups I've belonged to. It was one of the consistent complaints during the Clinton years.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Nothing this President has done is out of line, what you seem to endorse was the tough line and swaggering cowboy style that created as many problems as MIGHT have been solved. Many wild eyed, bomb them back to the stone age/nuke them all/ whatever ranters here are envoking BushII or even St. Reagan, neither of whom had much success at stopping terrorism.
    Terrorism will NEVER be wiped away completely. It will always be something we have to guard against. It's one of those eternal vigilance items. And yes, a hard line is always required here. AQ cannot deal with hard line, they don't have the people to deal with it. They go where the soft is exposed. And this president is soft.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Now because I am quite grown-up let me tell you about president Reagan and 1986 bombing you seem to think pounded Ghaddafi into submission-

    (oh FYI he wasn't in the tent when it was bombed so no 'human shield')

    1986 Reagan orders the bombing of key sites to include Ghaddafi's tent.

    in 1987 Libya is fomenting trouble in Australian held trusts, was caught shipping arms to European terrorists, Jorge Haider got 10 million for more Euro-terror from Iraq and Libya.

    The OPM got support in Indonesia

    Libya continued to train paramilitary subversive groups from around the world.

    Now the nut punch to the USofA-

    Lockerbie 1988

    Now look at that date, two years AFTER President Reagan 'pounded' Libya. So he didn't stop anything. Libya continued to train terrorists, ship arms, bankroll terrorists, and then finally pull off a massive terrorist attack of a civilian airliner over Scotland.

    Reagan overall didn't stop anything, from his ill conceived use of Marines in Lebanon (1983) that cost 241 men their lives to the bombing of Libya that was answered by Pam Am flight # 103.

    Nice try at rewriting history...
    I'm not trying near as hard as you are:

    The attacks failed to kill Gaddafi. Forewarned by a telephone call, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and his family rushed out of their residence in the Bab al-Azizia compound moments before the bombs dropped. It was long thought that the call came from Malta's Prime Minister, Karmenu Mifsud Bonnici.[15] However, Italian politician Bettino Craxi was the person who actually warned Gaddafi, according to Giulio Andreotti (the 42nd Prime Minister of Italy) and Abdel Rahman Shalgham (Libya's Foreign Minister from 2000 until 2009 who was at this time Libya's ambassador to Italy).[16]

    According to medical staff in the nearby hospital, two dozen people arrived in military uniform and two without uniform. Total Libyan casualties are estimated at 60, including casualties at the bombed airbases. Later among the casualties an infant girl, whose body was shown to American reporters and was claimed to be Gaddafi's recently adopted daughter Hana. However, there was and remains much skepticism over this.[17][18][19][20][21]

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    Re: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Right, they were not locked and loaded. As I remember hearing it they were directed not to carry loaded weapons on the gate. Other than in training I've never been aware of security carrying blanks. What would be the purpose in that? We were never issued blanks and I never considered they existed in our world. Maybe the Marine Corps is different but I'd be extremely surprised to hear it. I never worked embassy duty though I did work high level security. We always carried weapons and our weapons were always loaded, stateside included. I understand that embassy security is different. Ain't no way it would be right to order security to carry unloaded weapons.
    So, they did have magazines loaded with live rounds, but they didn't have rounds chambered. Is that what you're saying?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    If true it would be terrible, but luckily its not true in the least. Congratulations you've contributed to the disinformation and lies that dominate our information stream.

    REPORTS: Marines Not Permitted Live Ammo **UPDATE** - US Embassy Attack - Fox Nation
    Sorry...but I just don't trust Obama...with his record of lies and spins.

    I do agree that we don't really, and won't ever, know, but I think there is some substance to the claim. Marines talk...and then, when their chain of command comes down on them...or threatens to...they'll shut up quick. Obama, the Pentagon, and everyone else in the government will always be quick to stifle that which they don't want known. Heck, there have been reports that the U.S. knew of possible attacks well before the 11th, but of course, Obama denies that.

    Obama can't afford to admit any truth, at this point. It would sink his prospects of re-election.

    But, hey...you go ahead and believe everything Obama tells you.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Sorry...but I just don't trust Obama...with his record of lies and spins.

    I do agree that we don't really, and won't ever, know, but I think there is some substance to the claim. Marines talk...and then, when their chain of command comes down on them...or threatens to...they'll shut up quick. Obama, the Pentagon, and everyone else in the government will always be quick to stifle that which they don't want known. Heck, there have been reports that the U.S. knew of possible attacks well before the 11th, but of course, Obama denies that.

    Obama can't afford to admit any truth, at this point. It would sink his prospects of re-election.

    But, hey...you go ahead and believe everything Obama tells you.
    So what you're telling me is, you don't have any evidence the Marines weren't caring ammo except for what some blog says, which is is again wrong, but you believe it still may be the case because you feel in your heart that Obama may be lying on this one?

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    Re: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    So what you're telling me is, you don't have any evidence the Marines weren't caring ammo except for what some blog says, which is is again wrong, but you believe it still may be the case because you feel in your heart that Obama may be lying on this one?
    When those "some blogs" are USMC blogs, yes, yes I do believe them over some political Pentagon spokesgoat.

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    Re: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

    Clownboy-
    While Mattel Toy maybe somewhat specific at no time has any unit since the M1 Garand referred to what gets inserted into the weapon as a 'clip', focus please.

    Do you call the 20 and 30 round magazines 'clips'?

    Name some names, places, Embassies where Marine Guards were unarmed or did not carry ammo while on duty- vague 'I heard from a friend of a friend while knockin back quarter beers at the VFW' don't count for much. Rumors are not worth the piss afterwards.

    Hardline? Like Reagan did in Lebanon? What is hardline anyways- nuke Kabul? Problem with 'hardline' is whatever is done isn't 'hardline' enough for some. al-Queera is getting drone attacks across the Middle East, pretty damn hardline to me.

    Now when it comes to President Reagan and Ghaddafi you missed your own point to dwell on highly slanted versions of what happened the night of the bombing. Fact is there was no human shield as many targets were hit, civilian losses low so no human shields, The whole story that Ghaddafi was tipped off are suspect at best and the whole point of a human shield is to let everyone know you have one, that is what Saddam did with the British folks, and not what Ghaddafi did. It wasn't a human shield but family members in his tent.

    But you duck YOUR major point that is 120% false-

    Reagan 'pounding' Libya causing a few deaths in 1986, didn't stop terrorism from Libya- Lockerbie was 2 years later!

    So your assertion of a hardline suppresses terrorism is shown to be flawed by your very own example. Look what it took to attack Libya and kill 60 some people vs what it took for Libyan agents to down Pan Am #103 killing 270 people.

    Reagan didn't suppress terrorism, he just escalated the violence from 3 killed in a Disco to 270 in Scotland.

    takes more than killing to stop terrorism, and the 'take a hardline' crowd never is satisfied because no matter how many get killed it is never hardline enough unless your man is sitting in the Oval Office.

    Reagan blowing up a tent was seen as hardline, Clinton's tent as wussy...

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    Re: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    When those "some blogs" are USMC blogs, yes, yes I do believe them over some political Pentagon spokesgoat.
    Why? You'll take the word of a blog article without an author or any source material, over the Pentagon?

    NightWatch 20120913 - KGS

    That is the original source up there, and if I'm going to believe that Marines weren't allowed to carry live ammo I'm going to need more than some anonymous sourceless writing on the internet. You should demand facts before just picking whats true and false based on what you wish reality to be, otherwise you're just being willfully ignorant.

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    Re: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, they did have magazines loaded with live rounds, but they didn't have rounds chambered. Is that what you're saying?
    This may come as a surprise to you, but I wasn't there. They were not able to fire at the vehicles that breached the gate. Down the chain of command from SECDEF Weinberger was an order that Marine guards at the gate would not have loaded weapons. How that was implemented at the gate I do not know. I have always taken the information to mean that the guards did not have magazines loaded into their weapons. Obviously then, no rounds were chambered.

    It's obvious you are driving a point because it happened on Reagan's watch and you have trouble accepting it. Make your point.

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    Re: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Clownboy-
    While Mattel Toy maybe somewhat specific at no time has any unit since the M1 Garand referred to what gets inserted into the weapon as a 'clip', focus please.

    Do you call the 20 and 30 round magazines 'clips'?
    Then you never served in Vietnam. We used clip, magazine and mag. Just checked with my uncle who served in Korea, Vietnam and parts all over the world since, he's heard all used.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Name some names, places, Embassies where Marine Guards were unarmed or did not carry ammo while on duty- vague 'I heard from a friend of a friend while knockin back quarter beers at the VFW' don't count for much. Rumors are not worth the piss afterwards.
    I'll ask, my next meeting with the support group is at the end of the month. And btw, even the spokeweenies for the Pentagon said that was up to the Ambassador, so obviously it is an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Hardline? Like Reagan did in Lebanon? What is hardline anyways- nuke Kabul? Problem with 'hardline' is whatever is done isn't 'hardline' enough for some. al-Queera is getting drone attacks across the Middle East, pretty damn hardline to me.

    Now when it comes to President Reagan and Ghaddafi you missed your own point to dwell on highly slanted versions of what happened the night of the bombing. Fact is there was no human shield as many targets were hit, civilian losses low so no human shields, The whole story that Ghaddafi was tipped off are suspect at best and the whole point of a human shield is to let everyone know you have one, that is what Saddam did with the British folks, and not what Ghaddafi did. It wasn't a human shield but family members in his tent.

    But you duck YOUR major point that is 120% false-

    Reagan 'pounding' Libya causing a few deaths in 1986, didn't stop terrorism from Libya- Lockerbie was 2 years later!

    So your assertion of a hardline suppresses terrorism is shown to be flawed by your very own example. Look what it took to attack Libya and kill 60 some people vs what it took for Libyan agents to down Pan Am #103 killing 270 people.

    Reagan didn't suppress terrorism, he just escalated the violence from 3 killed in a Disco to 270 in Scotland.

    takes more than killing to stop terrorism, and the 'take a hardline' crowd never is satisfied because no matter how many get killed it is never hardline enough unless your man is sitting in the Oval Office.

    Reagan blowing up a tent was seen as hardline, Clinton's tent as wussy...
    I will cede that the Reagan bombings only had the effect of quieting Ghaddafi in the world press and did not cease his terrorist actions.

    As for the hard line thing, that's perception (a staple for American presidents). The American people and the world must perceive they are hard line and not a push over.

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    Re: REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    And given Obama's record of lying, doing everything he can to accept responsibility for his actions and policies and spinning every event to make himself look good...the likelihood of him acting in this manner...in this situation...is entirely consistent. Until I see evidence that he is not, yes...this is what I believe.

    So...show me something, other than his own suspect words and actions, to change my mind.
    No, I think I've made my point.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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