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Thread: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

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    Re: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Heh.

    Apparently you can't conceive of someone merely having a different view without it being for nefarious reasons.
    No, you can have a different view on many issues without it being for nefarious reasons...social security, abortion, tax policy, etc. But when you specifically support a law that will disproportionately disenfranchise minority voters, and you do it without even PRETENDING like you have evidence of a problem that this will solve, then it is absolutely for nefarious reasons. Civil rights laws are a completely different animal than, say, what the marginal tax rate should be.
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    Re: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Poor people can also get identification. They should have identification too. Everybody SHOULD. It's only common sense and not an outrageous request.
    Guess what.. I agree! However what the GOP is doing in many states is an outrageous request for some. A 80+ year old that was born during a time where getting a birth certificate was not a standard thing.. how on earth can he or she get a voter ID when one of the requirements is to present your birth certificate? I understand fully the wish to prevent the very very little voter fraud that there is, but there must be a way to do it so it impacts as little as possible and makes it possible for everyone regardless of race, sex, age and income to get such a voter ID so that they can vote in elections.
    PeteEU

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    Re: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It's not a barrier at all. You cannot cash a check without identification.
    Cashing a check is not a constitutional right.

    In some counties, you can be arrested for vagrancy if you have no ID.
    I've never heard of any such laws. If they exist, they are most likely unconstitutional and just haven't been challenged yet.

    It is not in any way unreasonable to expect voters to have an identification.
    Then surely you can present some solid evidence that 1) the problem that these laws purport to solve actually exists, and 2) the laws will actually solve it.
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    Re: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Actions of the GOP in individual states. They could implement these ID programs for free.. but they have not. Instead they have put in road blocks that have made getting an ID cost money or you have to jump through more loopholes than Romney uses to get his 13% tax rate.

    Point is, it is not so "simple" to get such IDs that are accepted during voting and those that will get hurt by such laws are more than often... democratic voters.


    Hows that working out in Chicago, Illinois? How about California? What about NY, Det, Cincinatti, oh and Masterchoosits.

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    Re: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    You are talking silly now. I've been poor. I've always had identification too. My grandmother is 90 years old. She has identification too. That is a cop-out. The only people who would TRULY be affected "negatively" by this would be illegal immigrants.
    So you got that ID when you were poor, or after or before?

    And your grandmother, was she born in the deep south or backwards areas of the US? You do realize that birth certificates were not the norm at the beginning of the last century and before, in very rural poor areas right?

    There is an easy solution to this all... a personal ID system given to you at birth/citizenship... it is simple and easy, but as I stated.. wont happen.
    PeteEU

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    Re: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Does it need to be Nationwide? What about in Key-States only?
    Evidence from key states (or non-key states) is fine too. Really I'm looking for *any* evidence of voter fraud from *anywhere* in the country, as I have seen absolutely none.

    What happened with Minnesota and Franken and having Convicted Ex Felons voting for him while being locked up?
    OK, now we're getting somewhere. This is at least an attempt at some evidence of voter fraud, which is more than the proponents of voter ID are usually willing to do. So I'll hear you out: How many ineligible voters voted for Al Franken? And what was the circumstances of their vote? What I mean by this is...was their name simply not purged from the voter rolls as it should have been, or did they vote in someone else's name? If it's the former, then a voter ID will not solve this problem.
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    Re: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Guess what.. I agree! However what the GOP is doing in many states is an outrageous request for some. A 80+ year old that was born during a time where getting a birth certificate was not a standard thing.. how on earth can he or she get a voter ID when one of the requirements is to present your birth certificate? I understand fully the wish to prevent the very very little voter fraud that there is, but there must be a way to do it so it impacts as little as possible and makes it possible for everyone regardless of race, sex, age and income to get such a voter ID so that they can vote in elections.
    If for some reason a person cannot access a birth certificate but can prove they are a legal citizen, then I'm sure accommodations could be made, and that would also be a very limited number of people.

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    Re: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Yes, how will those rednecks figure out how to obtain an identification? It's just a completely ridiculous argument.
    Kinda like Street People and Bangers in Chicago, NY, and L. A......Huh?

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    Re: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So you got that ID when you were poor, or after or before?

    And your grandmother, was she born in the deep south or backwards areas of the US? You do realize that birth certificates were not the norm at the beginning of the last century and before, in very rural poor areas right?

    There is an easy solution to this all... a personal ID system given to you at birth/citizenship... it is simple and easy, but as I stated.. wont happen.
    Actually, my grandmother was born in a very rural area in Maine. I've had identification since I was 15 years old when I got my first job. It was very easy to obtain and did not break the bank, as ID only cost like $15 to $20 at that time. Like I said, if someone had to pay for this every week or month, I could see your gripe, but this is ridiculous. It could easily be a one-time fee of $20 and then like a $5 renewal fee every few years. If someone is too poor (homeless or what not) or cannot access their birth certificate, appropriate accommodations could be made for those FEW people.

    Oh, and I like the last idea. Maybe someday it will be instituted. There could be MANY reasons why it hasn't been, such as not being cost effective. It doesn't mean that there is a plot to take over the world you know.

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    Re: You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You clearly don't understand how logic works. "What if it's not" is not a valid objection
    Yes, as I pointed out by discounting your own "what if?" -- which was the point of my own. I thought that was clear. I guess not. Do you think that yours are valid and mine are not?


    Does 500 voter ID forms per DMV per day (in addition to regular work) still sound eminently reasonable to you? Have you ever been to a DMV?
    Funny, here are the acceptable forms of ID under the PA law:

    What kind of IDs should I bring to the polls in November?

    Starting on November 6, you must prove your identity by showing one of the following photo IDs issued by:

    The United States government, e.g., a U.S. passport
    The Commonwealth of PA, e.g., a driver’s license (NOTE: An expired driver’s license is okay as long as it is within 12 months after the expiration date)
    A PA municipality (e.g., city, county, borough, incorporated town) to municipal employees
    An accredited PA public or private institution of higher learning, e.g., a student card
    A PA care facility, which includes a long‐term care nursing facility, an assisted living residence or a personal care home
    U.S. Armed Forces branches or their reserves, including the PA National Guard (NOTE: The ID holder can be a veteran or current member; the expiration date can be indefinite.)
    Did you not know this, or are you purposely falsely implying that acceptable IDs can come ONLY from DOT locations?

    And besides, nice confinement to a single example of one jurisdiction.



    Laws that specifically aim to disenfranchise minority voters, BECAUSE they are minority voters, without actually mentioning race = Jim Crow Laws.
    This is absolutely a fair description of these voter ID laws. And anyone who supports them is absolutely supporting Jim Crow Laws. Your views on this are reprehensible and disgusting.
    No, it's delusional race-card mental vomit.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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