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Thread: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

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    Re: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    So what other types do you group under the predominantly terrorist group, white, middle class conservative, gun-owning, anti-abortion, born-again Christians?
    I'm not defining any group of people as predominantly terrorists. There is a world of difference between the statements "Most X are terrorists" and "Most terrorists are X". The former, which your statement implies, isn't worthy of a moments thought, regardless of the group in question (not withstanding truisms). It is only the latter we're addressing here at all.

    I'm suggesting that in general terms no single group of people can be identified as being "the vast majority of terrorists", and I think the variety of statistics I've linked support that position. There are plenty of Islamic terrorists but there are plenty of separatist, extreme left-wing/right-wing and "freedom fighter" terrorists too.

    Islamic terrorism is most certainly an issue to address but it's one that should be addressed openly and honestly and shouldn't be at the complete exclusion of all other forms or terrorism.

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    Re: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    Islamic terrorism is most certainly an issue to address but it's one that should be addressed openly and honestly and shouldn't be at the complete exclusion of all other forms or terrorism.
    Nor should "all other forms or terrorism" be allowed to distract us from the more serious problem of Islamist terrorists.
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    Re: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    Why not? Because they don't fit your preconceptions?

    What about figures for Europe instead? EUobserver.com / Justice & Home Affairs / Home-grown terrorism rising in EU, Europol says
    religion - Are most terrorists Muslim? - Skeptics

    As I said, it depends on context and definitions but it is clearly wrong to make the unqualified statement that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim".
    What is actually quite clearly wrong is when intellectually dishonest people frame the sample size in such a way as to intentionally ignore the vast majority of incidents, while doing so out of some sort of need to defend -- and for no other reason than they have predetermined such a defense is necessary.
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    Re: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    What is actually quite clearly wrong is when intellectually dishonest people frame the sample size in such a way as to intentionally ignore the vast majority of incidents, while doing so out of some sort of need to defend -- and for no other reason than they have predetermined such a defense is necessary.
    I not defending anything more than you are. You made a simplistic, unconditional statement that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim" and I am challenging the generalisation.

    I'm not claiming there aren't lots of Islamic terrorists, especially in specific regions, that much of that terrorism isn't large scale and serious nor that nothing should be done to address it. All I am suggesting is that your statement's factual correctness is at best hugely depended on context and definitions so is really too generalistic to have any real meaning.

    If you don't like the sampling of the statistics I found to demonstrate the range and variety of terrorism world-wide, you're free to present your own preferred evidence.
    Last edited by HonestJoe; 09-07-12 at 06:24 AM. Reason: Fingers not working!

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    Re: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    I not defending anything more than you are. You made a simplistic, unconditional statement that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim" and I am challenging the generalisation.

    I'm not claiming there aren't lots of Islamic terrorists, especially in specific regions, that much of that terrorism isn't large scale and serious nor that nothing should be done to address it. All I am suggesting is that your statement's factual correctness is at best hugely depended on context and definitions so is really too generalistic to have any real meaning.

    If you don't like the sampling of the statistics I found to demonstrate the range and variety of terrorism world-wide, you're free to present your own preferred evidence.
    The thread is about Islamic terrorism. Not any other kind of terrorism. So what? Every time someone wants to start a thread on Islamic terrorism, they have to include all other kinds of terrorism to make people like you feel satisfied that a particular terrorist group isn't being singled out? That is so stupid.

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    Re: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The thread is about Islamic terrorism.
    Actually the thread was about the vicious murder of a young boy. At the time of the OP at least, the motive for it hadn't been confirmed. The thread developed in to a discussion about culture and crime in Islamic countries and inevitably terrorism was brought up. There was really nothing wrong with that discussion.

    I did make a comment about a specific statement by one poster - that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim", which ultimately led to the post you quoted. This was really a tangent to the topic, but a relevant one IMO.

    Please be clear though; I am not saying Islamic terrorism shouldn't be discussed or that other terrorism must be referred to in the same thread. I am saying that all discussions should be true and honest. I don't think that statement was true and honest so I questioned it.

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    Re: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    Actually the thread was about the vicious murder of a young boy. At the time of the OP at least, the motive for it hadn't been confirmed. The thread developed in to a discussion about culture and crime in Islamic countries and inevitably terrorism was brought up. There was really nothing wrong with that discussion.

    I did make a comment about a specific statement by one poster - that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim", which ultimately led to the post you quoted. This was really a tangent to the topic, but a relevant one IMO.

    Please be clear though; I am not saying Islamic terrorism shouldn't be discussed or that other terrorism must be referred to in the same thread. I am saying that all discussions should be true and honest. I don't think that statement was true and honest so I questioned it.
    Okay, I get that. Islamic terrorists ARE the most active, destructive and brutal terrorists I've ever heard of though, and it is kind of embedded in the culture generally.

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    Re: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Islamic terrorists ARE the most active, destructive and brutal terrorists I've ever heard of though
    Quite possibly, though as you point out, that's limited to those you've heard of. How much do you honestly hear about any other terrorist acts? We don't even hear about most Islamic terrorist acts.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    and it is kind of embedded in the culture generally.
    This comes back to the topic of the thread. My question to you is "Which culture?". Islam is not a single culture (even if some Muslims think it is). An American Muslim will be very different to an Iraqi Muslim, a Malaysian Muslim or a Russian Muslim. You probably have more in common with the average American Muslim than he has with many other Muslims across the world.

    Again, there are common factors and there are plenty of issues with the faith in general, but reality is much more varied and complex than many people (wish to) make it out to be. That means there are no easy answers, which is what scares so many people.

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    Re: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    Quite possibly, though as you point out, that's limited to those you've heard of. How much do you honestly hear about any other terrorist acts? We don't even hear about most Islamic terrorist acts.
    That would all depend upon what part of the world you live in. With the internet, we have access.

    This comes back to the topic of the thread. My question to you is "Which culture?". Islam is not a single culture (even if some Muslims think it is). An American Muslim will be very different to an Iraqi Muslim, a Malaysian Muslim or a Russian Muslim. You probably have more in common with the average American Muslim than he has with many other Muslims across the world.
    I am talking more about the patriarchal cultures in the ME, the ones that practice things like Sharia Law, oppression of women and female children, a general distaste for anything related to "freedom." This is the kind of environment where terrorism would naturally thrive and is actually encouraged in a lot of instances.

    Again, there are common factors and there are plenty of issues with the faith in general, but reality is much more varied and complex than many people (wish to) make it out to be. That means there are no easy answers, which is what scares so many people.
    Of course. No one has said that ALL Muslims were terrorists; only that it is a BIG problem that should not be ignored.

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    Re: Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    I not defending anything more than you are. You made a simplistic, unconditional statement that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim" and I am challenging the generalisation.

    I'm not claiming there aren't lots of Islamic terrorists, especially in specific regions, that much of that terrorism isn't large scale and serious nor that nothing should be done to address it. All I am suggesting is that your statement's factual correctness is at best hugely depended on context and definitions so is really too generalistic to have any real meaning.

    If you don't like the sampling of the statistics I found to demonstrate the range and variety of terrorism world-wide, you're free to present your own preferred evidence.
    and now you are simply lying because I made no such statement at all.

    Might I possibly suggest you indulge in at least the tiniest little bit of honesty here so to avoid making such a complete mockery of your user name?
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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