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Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tour De

Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

lpast said:
We agree...if your going to police the sport make sure you include EVERYONE on the good side as well as the bad side....something here nags me that there is a strong dislike for armstrong with the powers to be and they are relishing taking him down...I dont know that to be true its just a feeling that seems to come out of all this to me
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I have athletes who have to deal with USADA and I once had to deal with them but shooting was not exactly a sport that had any history of dopers. It appears this was a vendetta since the guy had retired and they couldn't catch him while he was competing. I am still waiting for the IOC to give Shirley Babashoff and Frank Shorter the medals they were cheated out of given the trainers and doctors and coaches of the East Germans who "beat them" in 1976 were CONVICTED of doping the athletes for the EG team
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

TurtleDude said:
I have athletes who have to deal with USADA and I once had to deal with them but shooting was not exactly a sport that had any history of dopers. It appears this was a vendetta since the guy had retired and they couldn't catch him while he was competing. I am still waiting for the IOC to give Shirley Babashoff and Frank Shorter the medals they were cheated out of given the trainers and doctors and coaches of the East Germans who "beat them" in 1976 were CONVICTED of doping the athletes for the EG team
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Wont happen as I pointed out in a different thread :)
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

lpast said:
Just WOW...


U.S. Anti-Doping Agency chief executive Travis Tygart says the agency will ban Lance Armstrong from cycling for life and strip him of his seven Tour de France titles for doping.


Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tour De France Titles
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He is correct. A U.S. agency has NO authority to strip him of any titles NOR ban him from cycling competitions. The USADA is an agency that has run amuck for which any accusation against any athlete is presumed true and then it declares it has infinite worldwide powers when it has none.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

Not mentioned is there is oft talk that Lance Armstrong is going to run for political office in Texas, so there also may be a pre-emptive political motive.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

joko104 said:
Not mentioned is there is oft talk that Lance Armstrong is going to run for political office in Texas, so there also may be a pre-emptive political motive.
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Run as what dem or gop ? first I heard this
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

vauge said:
About the doping, the Libertarian in me feels the same. It's their body. Why should I care what they do with it?
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Here's hypothetical:

Say one of your kids becomes so great at cycling, that he wants to eventually do it competitively. He does well, but lacks the edge that all the others have because they chose to dope. So basically, with his back against a wall, your son has this decision to make:
1) To dope, succeed at his chose sport, but most likely die at a relatively young age
2) To not dope, and know that he'll never succeed in his dreams of becoming a champion, let alone finishing in the top tier.

Me, I don't wish to impose this on our future generations of athletes, let alone my child. I think you'd feel the same.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

These agencies just bury themselves and the sports they represent. Armstrong doesn't need to do anything until he gets his day in court. Then hold up the evidence of hundreds of drug tests where it showed no trace of illegal drugs in his system vs a bunch of whiny crybaby losers that got their asses kicked and claim he was doping. Let the agency attempt to strip him of his wins and then watch him Armstrong laugh his way through the legal system at them.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

Show the proof. I'll wait right here.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

rhinefire said:
Show the proof. I'll wait right here.
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They found positive tests from 2009-2010. They had dropped the case previously. (It was given to Eric Holder, then he got rid it strangely right after Lance gave money to Planned Parenthood) And now they have gotten witnesses from the 7-year Tour rein who said it doped.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

boy even a cycling thread can turn into an anti Obama thread... jeezzzz.
 
Amigo said:
They found positive tests from 2009-2010. They had dropped the case previously. (It was given to Eric Holder, then he got rid it strangely right after Lance gave money to Planned Parenthood) And now they have gotten witnesses from the 7-year Tour rein who said it doped.
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I hope the witness evidence is actually substantive and not the same speculations and hearsay that have been discussed in the numerous books and articles written.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

Back in the late 60's and in to the 70's when I worked out in the local body building studio, you could get what was called Dyanabol, a muscle buidling steroid. It was easy to get it, just go to a doctor, have a complete physical, and then he would rule you healthy to take the stuff. You could get a month's prescription. Then stay off of it for a month, then go back on it every other month so 6 months out of the year you were on it. I saw guys make phonomenal weight gains, and their strength seemed to have no limits. I briefly thought about it, but the then magazine, "Strength and Health" warned you about taking that stuff, citing all kinds of problems afterwards. Yeah, I saw those problems first hand in what it did to those guys. Many developed liver and kidney problems.

I got beat in a deadlift contest at that local gym by a cop, who was on steroids. I held the record in the deadlift at 480 lbs in the 181 lb class. One night, he deadlifted 500. I came back the next night and lifted 510. He came back and did 520. I lifted 525, and could barely stand up with it, but held it. Then he comes back and does 540. I got it off the floor but couldn't stand up with it. I complained to the managment about his unfair advantage, but it landed on deaf ears. My only answerewas, "he oultlifted you, stop crying about it". Now, this stuff is illegal and should be.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

lpast said:
Run as what dem or gop ? first I heard this
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For a while there was talk of him and press of him running for governor or Congress. GOP.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

joko104 said:
For a while there was talk of him and press of him running for governor or Congress. GOP.
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Be alot harder for him to win now...dont think it will happen
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

Middleground said:
Here's hypothetical:

Say one of your kids becomes so great at cycling, that he wants to eventually do it competitively. He does well, but lacks the edge that all the others have because they chose to dope. So basically, with his back against a wall, your son has this decision to make:
1) To dope, succeed at his chose sport, but most likely die at a relatively young age
2) To not dope, and know that he'll never succeed in his dreams of becoming a champion, let alone finishing in the top tier.

Me, I don't wish to impose this on our future generations of athletes, let alone my child. I think you'd feel the same.
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You make good points. All the sports teams are becoming innovative on what they can slip by. Professional sports are becoming a joke, now. It's all about winning by any means, possilble. Integrity and good sportsmanship has flown out the window.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

bicycleman said:
You make good points. All the sports teams are becoming innovative on what they can slip by. Professional sports are becoming a joke, now. It's all about winning by any means, possilble. Integrity and good sportsmanship has flown out the window.
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The results of this survey might surprise some folks here:
There’s a well-known survey in sports, known as the Goldman Dilemma. For it, a researcher, Bob Goldman, began asking elite athletes in the 1980s whether they would take a drug that guaranteed them a gold medal but would also kill them within five years. More than half of the athletes said yes. When he repeated the survey biannually for the next decade, the results were always the same. About half of the athletes were quite ready to take the bargain.
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Look at how the opinions are different when the question was posed to non-athletes:
Only recently did researchers get around to asking nonathletes the same question. In results published online in February, 2009 in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, exactly 2 of the 250 people surveyed in Sydney, Australia, said that they would take a drug that would ensure both success and an early death. “We were surprised,” James Connor, Ph.D., a lecturer at the University of New South Wales and one of the study’s authors, said in an e-mail message. “I expected 10-20 percent yes.” His conclusion, unassailable if inexplicable, is that “elite athletes are different from the general population, especially on desire to win.”
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Interesting stuff, eh? My neighbour, who is doing his Phd in Sports Psychology, was completely fascinated with this.

Phys Ed: Will Olympic Athletes Dope if They Know It Might Kill Them? - NYTimes.com
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

Middleground said:
Here's hypothetical:

Say one of your kids becomes so great at cycling, that he wants to eventually do it competitively. He does well, but lacks the edge that all the others have because they chose to dope. So basically, with his back against a wall, your son has this decision to make:
1) To dope, succeed at his chose sport, but most likely die at a relatively young age
2) To not dope, and know that he'll never succeed in his dreams of becoming a champion, let alone finishing in the top tier.

Me, I don't wish to impose this on our future generations of athletes, let alone my child. I think you'd feel the same.
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You are right, my son would have a decision to make. It is his body. The best I can do is pray and help him make the best informed decision.

Hopefully he would consider all the consequences of any drug regardless if they were legal or not.

Perhaps the best decision would be to create multiple 'groups'. One that allows doping and one that does not.
The current system encourages doping.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

RadicalModerate said:
As someone who couldn't care less about sports and has almost zero knowledge of sporting trends and whatever, and I say this in the interest of full honesty and disclosure...

...why does anyone care about doping in sports, in any manner? Seriously, I don't get it. Why should I care if Armstrong used growth hormones or whatever to win a race? Why are MLB players being hauled in front of Congress? Why is any of this in any news source outside of SportsCenter?
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Because it is either against the law or the rules of their sport and because they are public figures? Just a suggestion.
 
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Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

vauge said:
You are right, my son would have a decision to make. It is his body. The best I can do is pray and help him make the best informed decision.

Hopefully he would consider all the consequences of any drug regardless if they were legal or not.
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It's just sad that he would have to resort to that type of decision in order to make his deams come true. And according to the survey that I posted above, chances are he'll choose the drugs and glory.

Perhaps the best decision would be to create multiple 'groups'. One that allows doping and one that does not.
The current system encourages doping.
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There could be something to this, but at first glance, it just doesn't see feasible.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

Haven't followed this in detail, but it sounds like they aren't exactly being even-handed. Sure they've made some examples, but what about all his teammates that testified? If everyone has been doping, then didn't he still win fair and square so-to-speak?
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

Middleground said:
There could be something to this, but at first glance, it just doesn't see feasible.
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What if there were a law to only allow televise/broadcast non-doping sports? Or a 'pact' with the media conglomerates?
But, allow small mom & pop streamers & news. This would remove the money from the pro-doping sports and still allow the person that doesn't mind a little "help" to get the doping record. History would show the dopers will fall off the list. Morals win any day if there is a choice. Call it alternative sports - this idea would also allow robotic enhancements as well. We all know those are coming soon too...
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

lpast said:
I dont see how you can associate using enhancing drugs with choice of clothing...first of all if they allowed drugs you would be forcing athletes that dont want to use drugs into having to use them to be able to compete. Sports achievements should be as they always were personal achievement through hard work and talent not better living through chemicals....clothing is a personal choice...every athlete has the choice to wear whatever clothing they BELIEVE will enhance their ability...not one shoe fits all...
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Okay read what I said. An athlete picking a better faster bike or a more accurate rifle is NOT picking something they do because it looks good. They do it in order to give them an advantage over others. If that is so - then it stands to reason that the only way for ALL athletes to be even is for them ALL to have the same equipment - and yet - they don't. Why is that?
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

vauge said:
What if there were a law to only allow televise/broadcast non-doping sports? Or a 'pact' with the media conglomerates?
But, allow small mom & pop streamers & news. This would remove the money from the pro-doping sports and still allow the person that doesn't mind a little "help" to get the doping record. History would show the dopers will fall off the list. Morals win any day if there is a choice. Call it alternative sports - this idea would also allow robotic enhancements as well. We all know those are coming soon too...
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Morals will win the public over at the end of the day, but I have little doubt that if the stakes are high enough, athletes will come full-circle and go back to doping in the clean sports. Think about it... over 50% of professional athletes would agree to die in 5 years if they were given a gold medal. That is what our sports world has become, and the desire for "greatness" takes over any common sense.
 
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Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

Hatuey said:
Okay read what I said. An athlete picking a better faster bike or a more accurate rifle is NOT picking something they do because it looks good. They do it in order to give them an advantage over others. If that is so - then it stands to reason that the only way for ALL athletes to be even is for them ALL to have the same equipment - and yet - they don't. Why is that?
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When a new technology is developed that is proven to be effective, all athletes in that sport will no doubt eventually use it.
 
Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

Middleground said:
When a new technology is developed that is proven to be effective, all athletes in that sport will no doubt eventually use it.
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Not true at all. Companies market products exclusively to some athletes/teams/franchises ALL the time not allowing anybody else to use it.
 
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