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Thread: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tour De

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    Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    You make good points. All the sports teams are becoming innovative on what they can slip by. Professional sports are becoming a joke, now. It's all about winning by any means, possilble. Integrity and good sportsmanship has flown out the window.

    The results of this survey might surprise some folks here:
    Theres a well-known survey in sports, known as the Goldman Dilemma. For it, a researcher, Bob Goldman, began asking elite athletes in the 1980s whether they would take a drug that guaranteed them a gold medal but would also kill them within five years. More than half of the athletes said yes. When he repeated the survey biannually for the next decade, the results were always the same. About half of the athletes were quite ready to take the bargain.
    Look at how the opinions are different when the question was posed to non-athletes:
    Only recently did researchers get around to asking nonathletes the same question. In results published online in February, 2009 in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, exactly 2 of the 250 people surveyed in Sydney, Australia, said that they would take a drug that would ensure both success and an early death. We were surprised, James Connor, Ph.D., a lecturer at the University of New South Wales and one of the studys authors, said in an e-mail message. I expected 10-20 percent yes. His conclusion, unassailable if inexplicable, is that elite athletes are different from the general population, especially on desire to win.
    Interesting stuff, eh? My neighbour, who is doing his Phd in Sports Psychology, was completely fascinated with this.

    Phys Ed: Will Olympic Athletes Dope if They Know It Might Kill Them? - NYTimes.com
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Here's hypothetical:

    Say one of your kids becomes so great at cycling, that he wants to eventually do it competitively. He does well, but lacks the edge that all the others have because they chose to dope. So basically, with his back against a wall, your son has this decision to make:
    1) To dope, succeed at his chose sport, but most likely die at a relatively young age
    2) To not dope, and know that he'll never succeed in his dreams of becoming a champion, let alone finishing in the top tier.

    Me, I don't wish to impose this on our future generations of athletes, let alone my child. I think you'd feel the same.
    You are right, my son would have a decision to make. It is his body. The best I can do is pray and help him make the best informed decision.

    Hopefully he would consider all the consequences of any drug regardless if they were legal or not.

    Perhaps the best decision would be to create multiple 'groups'. One that allows doping and one that does not.
    The current system encourages doping.
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    Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    As someone who couldn't care less about sports and has almost zero knowledge of sporting trends and whatever, and I say this in the interest of full honesty and disclosure...

    ...why does anyone care about doping in sports, in any manner? Seriously, I don't get it. Why should I care if Armstrong used growth hormones or whatever to win a race? Why are MLB players being hauled in front of Congress? Why is any of this in any news source outside of SportsCenter?
    Because it is either against the law or the rules of their sport and because they are public figures? Just a suggestion.
    Last edited by Wiggen; 08-24-12 at 12:14 PM.
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    Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    You are right, my son would have a decision to make. It is his body. The best I can do is pray and help him make the best informed decision.

    Hopefully he would consider all the consequences of any drug regardless if they were legal or not.
    It's just sad that he would have to resort to that type of decision in order to make his deams come true. And according to the survey that I posted above, chances are he'll choose the drugs and glory.

    Perhaps the best decision would be to create multiple 'groups'. One that allows doping and one that does not.
    The current system encourages doping.
    There could be something to this, but at first glance, it just doesn't see feasible.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

    Haven't followed this in detail, but it sounds like they aren't exactly being even-handed. Sure they've made some examples, but what about all his teammates that testified? If everyone has been doping, then didn't he still win fair and square so-to-speak?
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    Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    There could be something to this, but at first glance, it just doesn't see feasible.
    What if there were a law to only allow televise/broadcast non-doping sports? Or a 'pact' with the media conglomerates?
    But, allow small mom & pop streamers & news. This would remove the money from the pro-doping sports and still allow the person that doesn't mind a little "help" to get the doping record. History would show the dopers will fall off the list. Morals win any day if there is a choice. Call it alternative sports - this idea would also allow robotic enhancements as well. We all know those are coming soon too...
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    I am also known as "vauge".

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    Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I dont see how you can associate using enhancing drugs with choice of clothing...first of all if they allowed drugs you would be forcing athletes that dont want to use drugs into having to use them to be able to compete. Sports achievements should be as they always were personal achievement through hard work and talent not better living through chemicals....clothing is a personal choice...every athlete has the choice to wear whatever clothing they BELIEVE will enhance their ability...not one shoe fits all...
    Okay read what I said. An athlete picking a better faster bike or a more accurate rifle is NOT picking something they do because it looks good. They do it in order to give them an advantage over others. If that is so - then it stands to reason that the only way for ALL athletes to be even is for them ALL to have the same equipment - and yet - they don't. Why is that?
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    Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    What if there were a law to only allow televise/broadcast non-doping sports? Or a 'pact' with the media conglomerates?
    But, allow small mom & pop streamers & news. This would remove the money from the pro-doping sports and still allow the person that doesn't mind a little "help" to get the doping record. History would show the dopers will fall off the list. Morals win any day if there is a choice. Call it alternative sports - this idea would also allow robotic enhancements as well. We all know those are coming soon too...

    Morals will win the public over at the end of the day, but I have little doubt that if the stakes are high enough, athletes will come full-circle and go back to doping in the clean sports. Think about it... over 50% of professional athletes would agree to die in 5 years if they were given a gold medal. That is what our sports world has become, and the desire for "greatness" takes over any common sense.
    Last edited by Middleground; 08-24-12 at 01:09 PM.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Okay read what I said. An athlete picking a better faster bike or a more accurate rifle is NOT picking something they do because it looks good. They do it in order to give them an advantage over others. If that is so - then it stands to reason that the only way for ALL athletes to be even is for them ALL to have the same equipment - and yet - they don't. Why is that?
    When a new technology is developed that is proven to be effective, all athletes in that sport will no doubt eventually use it.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA To Ban Cyclist For Life, Strip Him Of 7 Tou

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    When a new technology is developed that is proven to be effective, all athletes in that sport will no doubt eventually use it.
    Not true at all. Companies market products exclusively to some athletes/teams/franchises ALL the time not allowing anybody else to use it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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