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Thread: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

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    Re: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    I agree whole heartily with the bolded part, but where we probably disagree is while "I" would do what you said, talk to the doctors and family etc before I made a decision I have no problem if the woman makes the decision completely on her own no matter the outcome.
    We do disagree. I do not think any one person has the right to end a human life. Her doctors and family (and possibly church) need to be involved and they need to make the decision together. If it becomes a case were they disagree (unlikely), the doctors should have the final say. Again, this case is very rare and there are no morally right answers.
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    Re: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    We do disagree. I do not think any one person has the right to end a human life. Her doctors and family (and possibly church) need to be involved and they need to make the decision together. If it becomes a case were they disagree (unlikely), the doctors should have the final say. Again, this case is very rare and there are no morally right answers.
    Yes we definitely do, and thats fine that we do as I see what you are saying I just wouldnt want government deciding how it happens and that we agree on.

    I view it as saving hers and if the ZEF is impacted by that then unfortunately so be it.

    If i was a woman

    I personally would NEVER leave it up to the doctors, ever. Who knows what their beliefs are and that could cloud their judgment.
    They give me the info and i decide, never them.

    I personally wouldnt consult my church as I wouldn't struggle with the decision in that fashion at all but I would see how one may take this path in other circumstances.

    I personally wouldn't consult my family (not the father) but only because I know my decision would be for the chemo (unless my survival was basically nil and the ZEF was great.

    I would consult the father but is opinion would only be listened to and valued and I may very well decided differently.
    would never leave it up to the do.

    I also agree theres no moral answer here but thats because I dont think this is to be judged in that fashion, my morals, your morals, hers morals could all be different.

    Good talk though!
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    Re: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    I agree whole heartily with the bolded part, but where we probably disagree is while "I" would do what you said, talk to the doctors and family etc before I made a decision I have no problem if the woman makes the decision completely on her own no matter the outcome.

    If the doctor says you need chemo and it will INCREASE you chance of survival form 75% to 95% and she chooses to do so, then I support her in her choice even if "I" personally would have made a different one.

    if the follow-up info was the ZEF has 100% chance of survival currently and with the chemo that drops to 30% I still side with her choice, even if again "I" would make a different one.

    For me the bottom line is its her choice and this is just one of the nasty situations (though statistically rare but where does it stop) that could come up if the government had the right to make these decisions for women and take away their freedoms.
    I find insulting that men on this thread determining what women should do with their bodies. What creditability do men in this thread have on this subject. Women are control of their bodies. They decide when, how, who have sex with. I'm of the camp that women lives shouldn't be up to men that have suppress their rights for over 600+ years.

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    Re: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

    Quote Originally Posted by Vallista View Post
    I find insulting that men on this thread determining what women should do with their bodies. What creditability do men in this thread have on this subject. Women are control of their bodies. They decide when, how, who have sex with. I'm of the camp that women lives shouldn't be up to men that have suppress their rights for over 600+ years.
    I find it insulting that ANYBODY wants to force thier views on another in this manner and want to force women to do what they want. Womans rights is the way to go for me also.
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    Re: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

    In the US, I don't think this could have happened even if personhood was granted at conception. We allow killing in self defense. This would fit the bill.

    It's definitely a sad story. Although, if she died that quickly, I doubt chemo would have helped much.
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    Re: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

    If anything, this is more an illustration of how absurd government can be. It shouldn't take 20 days to determine whether it is better to save the mother or let both die. Everyone knows the answer but nobody is qualified to make the decision.

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    Re: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia - CNN.com




    Thank god we dont do this here in America.

    This is exactly why the core of the abortion debate is Woman's rights VS ZEFs rights. Anybody that denies that just isnt grasping reality.

    This is way I said if you grant person hood at conception it turns the woman in to a second class citizen for 9 months and she loses her rights, freedoms, and liberties.

    Now personally the article doesnt have enough info and theres nothing that says she factually died from not getting treatment but I would NEVER want the government treating women like this and taking their rights away and denying them needed treatments because it might impact the ZEF.

    Abortion isnt a "pretty" reality but its a reality none less and this is why I personally side with womans rights over ZEF rights. One has to be picked, cant have equal rights in this situation.
    Quite honestly, I don't think there are many people on either side of the abortion isle that would say that when the mother's life is in danger, as it was here, that they cannot have abortions.
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    Re: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

    that's so sad it makes me sick.

    #1) a 16 year old was pregnant to begin with.
    #2) she suffered from cancer
    #3) she was denied care because they favored the child more than her
    #4) she died because of it

    How ****ing tragic is that - that's just horrible on so many levels. One thing after the other
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    Re: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Quite honestly, I don't think there are many people on either side of the abortion isle that would say that when the mother's life is in danger, as it was here, that they cannot have abortions.
    hmmm
    I dont know Id tend to agree, I know there is at least one here maybe two but in general the number is probably low

    but the point is this is what can happen if you give womans rights away, one has to have more rights and this is a perfect example.


    now this is just food for thought but how fast would this scenario change is numbers were involved?

    no meds womans changes of living 0% and ZEFs 0%

    no meds womans changes of living 0% and ZEFs 100% (mom will live at least a year and ZEF will survive)

    no meds womans changes of living 50% and ZEFs 0%

    no meds womans changes of living 50% and ZEFs 100%

    with meds womans changes of living 100% and ZEFs 0%

    with meds womans changes of living 100% and ZEFs 50%

    etc etc

    I think these matter to a lot of people but I could be wrong.

    to me they are just almost always meaningless I always want it to be the womans choice
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    Re: Pregnant teen dies after abortion ban delays her chemo treatment for leukemia

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    that's so sad it makes me sick.

    #1) a 16 year old was pregnant to begin with.
    #2) she suffered from cancer
    #3) she was denied care because they favored the child more than her
    #4) she died because of it

    How ****ing tragic is that - that's just horrible on so many levels. One thing after the other
    just to be fair not sure she died because she was denied treatment, its possible though but I agree tragic none the less and she should not have been denied.
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