• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy[W:137]

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

The RNC is pressuring him to drop out of the senate race. Apparently he would need to submit the paperwork to drop out by 5pm tomorrow.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Romulus said:
Senator Claire McCaskill is a Democrat with a solid chance of winning re-election even if Obama loses. .
Click to expand...

Every time her opponent speaks, that chance gets more and more solid.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

teamosil said:
The RNC is pressuring him to drop out of the senate race. Apparently he would need to submit the paperwork to drop out by 5pm tomorrow.
Click to expand...

That'd be nice. John Brunner polled 11% higher against McCaskill during the Republican primaries than his opponents. Been a weird year for Republicans in MO., this may happen.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

How long before some far right freak claims there is a neurological reason why women on the Left get pregnant more often when they are raped versus women on the Right?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

MaggieD said:
What a fool!!!!!

Are you SURE he's not a Democrat? ;)
Click to expand...

A majority of voters with postgraduate and college degrees vote Democratic now. Hadn't you heard? The Republicans now have the distinction of garnering the most voters who are the least educated.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

choiceone said:
A majority of voters with postgraduate and college degrees vote Democratic now. Hadn't you heard? The Republicans now have the distinction of garnering the most voters who are the least educated.
Click to expand...

liberal arts, fashion merchandizing and women's studies degrees don't count ;)
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

SmokeAndMirrors said:
I've seen estimates as high at 17% and as low as 3%, in terms of chances of pregnancy from rape. I admit there is a lot of unsettled work to be done in this field, partly because rape survivors don't tend to want to be interviewed.

I won't deny that your links are in good faith and may very well have good methodology. However, studies in good faith and good methodology have considerable discrepancies. This stuff is hard to track. In order for us to be better able to analyze this, we would need studies published at the same time from the same place, comparing unstressed women, with women under various kinds of stressors, including rape.

Also, the stress factor continues to have an affect even after pregnancy is established. How many of these women would miscarry? This particular study doesn't say. Rape can be said to be a trigger because it is an extreme stressor.
Click to expand...

It can be theorized that the stress of rape lowers the chance of pregnancy, or sustained pregnancy, but the independent studies of the rate of pregnancies in women who weren't raped and women who were raped would seem to have some greater correlation.

Akin's interest in the idea of stressors reducing the incidence of rape related pregnancy, is to minimize it in order to remove the rape and incest exceptions to abortion. It's a tenuous correlation at best. IMO.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

TurtleDude said:
It is a stupid argument politically. But I recall back in the good old days when I worked at PP and spent every saturday morning for a couple years arguing with the RIght to Lifers and the Operation Rescue bible thumpers-this issue would come up constantly and I finally talked to a top OB/GYN and She noted that violent rape is far less likely to cause pregnancy than consensual sex. Now that was almost 40 years ago and I have no clue if that is still something she would say-she died about 20 years ago
Click to expand...

Site by an MD that offers the same misinformation as Akin:

Christian Life Resources

Article by people with PhDs in medicine that contradicts the misinformation:

Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and de... [Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1996] - PubMed - NCBI

Here's another site of misinformation that Akin merely reflects:

Facts of Life: Chapter 3: Exceptions for Abortion: The Frequency of Rape-Caused Pregnancies

Here's a quote from this site:

They [pro-choice researchers] quote figures from rape crisis centers and other pro-abortion organizations that have done unscientific 'surveys' or 'studies' of women who have given reasons for wanting to get abortions. As described elsewhere in this Chapter, the women who obtain abortions for 'rape' are almost always lying. The rape crisis centers take the numbers (that are already inflated from working with rape victims) and apply them to the total female population, thereby obviously greatly skewing the results. (my underline)
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

choiceone said:
A majority of voters with postgraduate and college degrees vote Democratic now. Hadn't you heard? The Republicans now have the distinction of garnering the most voters who are the least educated.
Click to expand...

The only way that stat gets legs is by using "which party carried which state" and comparing that with college degrees in a particular state. Faulty logic. It proves no such thing.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Well... he's scientifically correct. It is indeed true that the female body is drastically less likely to conceive from a rape, or while any other severe stressors are going on.

But how the hell does that answer the question? The question was not "how common is pregnancy resulting from rape?" The question was "would you deny a woman who's been rape access to abortion?"

I suppose he did, in a round-about way, which was "yes." We should force women to get raped all over again by carrying an unwanted fetus to term so they can reminded of their rape for the rest of their lives. Wonderful.

What a sick individual.
Click to expand...

This is not true. In fact, some scientists have claimed that there is a higher probability of pregnancy with rape than with consensual sex, specifically, this is discussed in Thornhill and Palmer's controversial A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

OscarB63 said:
liberal arts, fashion merchandizing and women's studies degrees don't count ;)
Click to expand...

Being that you're a Republican, I'm going to guess that you don't actually know what "liberal arts" means... The liberal arts include things like mathematics and science...
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Moderator's Warning:
Oh for god's sake guys, stop with the baiting and trolling.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

TurtleDude said:
There is a difference between forcible rape and stuff that is often called date rape. ask any cop or prosecutor. Or if you watched the William Kennedy Smith case (which I did from start to finish) you would understand.
Click to expand...

Explain to me how, when someone drugs you into unconsciousness and rapes you, this is not real rape.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

TurtleDude said:
nope you of course want to mischaracterize the point

if someone has been beaten up menaced with a weapon or physical violence it is pretty obvious that the intercourse was a crime

if the woman says she "said no" and the guy said she said yes and there is no physical evidence of coercion than there is the DISTINCT POSSIBILITY that the woman is not being truthful. The Jury acquitted William Kennedy Smith because they did not believe Patty Bowman's claim that the sex was non-consensual

In Cincinnati, UC basketball star Louis Banks was accused of "date rape" by a woman who claimed they had NON-Consensual sex on FRIDAY NIGHT but CONSENSUAL sex the following night. How that made it past the grand jury is a puzzler but he was quickly acquitted by the jury because as the jury foreman noted on live tv-she was obviously a LIAR.

its all about the evidence-something most attorneys understand
Click to expand...

I see. You will give the accused rapist the right to be presumed innocent in a court of law, but you will presume the woman guilty of consensual sex. Two different types of presumptions, one for men, one for women. Right? Or perhaps I should ask, far right?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

OscarB63 said:
though obviously stupid. the basic premise that a woman is unlikely to get pregnant from rape is true. it's not like a woman can get pregnant 365 days a year. there is a certain specific "window of opportunity" and unless the rape occurs during this time, she isn't going to get preggers. However, if a woman is raped and get pregnant and she does not want to carry her attacker's child...she should be able to get an abortion no questions asked.
Click to expand...

See my posts above.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Simon W. Moon said:
Anyone who has tried to get pregnant can tell you that it can take months sometimes. A lot of sex can occur over the course of months. A lot. But only one of those times will result in pregnancy. So pregnancy from consensual sex is "rare"--w/e percentage 1 is of the total umber of times the couple has sex over the course of months while trying to have a baby.
Pregnancy from consensual sex is "rare".

So what're the stats?
How much more "rare" is it to conceive via consensual sex, or non-"legitimate rape", vs "legitimate rape"?
Is it more "rare"?

Are there any stats?
Or are there only FOAF stories?
Click to expand...

See my posts above.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Simon W. Moon said:
What does "drastically" mean in this instance?
Is there any quantification available?
Click to expand...

See my posts above.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

SmokeAndMirrors said:
And yet, his statement is accurate. It was probably spoon-fed to him as a generic way of trying to avoid questions about abortion, therefore he only understands it in the context of rape. It applies to more than just rape, but it is none the less true that it applies to rape as well.

His statement included words like "try" and "rare," both of which imply this mechanism is imperfect (which is true). I have no idea what the hell "legitimate rape" is supposed to mean, but none of that is the point.

Countering dishonest, slimy people with dishonest, slimy debate tactics does not make you the better person.

It is completely possible to attack his argument while sticking to the issue. You do not need to get mired in hack politics to do so.

What I would like to know is why he thinks women who've been raped should be forced through pregnancy. I would like to know why he doesn't believe women are even human enough to have bodily integrity. Everything else is immaterial.
Click to expand...

See my posts above.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

SmokeAndMirrors said:
That is not true. See above.

Rape triggers a stress response which is shown to lower the chances of regular ovulation, conception, and viable pregnancy.

I feel like it's insane I have to disclaim this, but given how people have responded thus far, I will: I am not defending the anti-choicer in the OP. I am defending scientific accuracy. It does not matter to me if the chances are lower. Women who are raped deserve access to abortion. Any woman deserves access to abortion. However, I will not abandon accuracy to make that point. I don't have to.
Click to expand...

See my posts above.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

OscarB63 said:
liberal arts, fashion merchandizing and women's studies degrees don't count ;)
Click to expand...

I would figure that the women who are more likely to go into the arts and fashion merchandizing than engineering, biology, and anthropology would be conservative, as the latter are fields traditionally acceptable for women, while the latter are not.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

MaggieD said:
The only way that stat gets legs is by using "which party carried which state" and comparing that with college degrees in a particular state. Faulty logic. It proves no such thing.
Click to expand...

These stats are based on exit polls. And they are different from earlier stats. It used to be that exit polls showed that more people with high school education or less voted for Dems, more with college education voted for Reps, and more with postgraduate education voted for Dems. But in presidential elections, at least, those with less than postgraduate education changed in proportion, so that a lower proportion of those with high school education or less voted for Dems and a higher proportion of those with college education voted for Reps.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

OscarB63 said:
though obviously stupid. the basic premise that a woman is unlikely to get pregnant from rape is true. it's not like a woman can get pregnant 365 days a year. there is a certain specific "window of opportunity" and unless the rape occurs during this time, she isn't going to get preggers. However, if a woman is raped and get pregnant and she does not want to carry her attacker's child...she should be able to get an abortion no questions asked.
Click to expand...

With all the sex acts that occur, the ones that result in pregnancy must be rare, statistically speaking. However, still possible.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

choiceone said:
A majority of voters with postgraduate and college degrees vote Democratic now. Hadn't you heard?
Click to expand...
How so? If you look at the most recent House vote, people with college degrees voted overwhelmingly for Republicans (58%/42%).

choiceone said:
The Republicans now have the distinction of garnering the most voters who are the least educated.
Click to expand...
No, that distinction still belongs to Democrats. Voters with less than a high school education voted overwhelmingly for Obama in 2008 (63%) and overwhelmingly for Democrats nationally in both the 2008 (69%) and 2010 (61%) congressional elections.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

choiceone said:
I see. You will give the accused rapist the right to be presumed innocent in a court of law, but you will presume the woman guilty of consensual sex. Two different types of presumptions, one for men, one for women. Right? Or perhaps I should ask, far right?
Click to expand...

Guilty of consensual sex?

Who among us has not been guilty of consensual sex?

Lying about having been raped is a serious charge. Having consensual sex is not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom