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Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy[W:137]

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

And we have a new low for stupidity and classlessness in one post.

:lol: where have you been the last 50 or so years? When it comes to ignorance about all things biological, right wingers have always historically been first to the plate. True, they eventually get it, but only after their much better educated counterparts in liberal communities have figured it out, and in the meantime, there's always much suffering.

Case in point--the perception of AIDS among people in mostly conservative communities in the 1980s. Even while it became accepted within the scientific community that AIDS is not exclusive to homosexuals nor is it spread by casual contact, the right believed otherwise, and as a result one young man w/AIDS living in a conservative community faced a never-ending barrage of repeated based assaults at his school. . .

Russiaville faced enormous pressure from many parents and faculty to bar White from the campus after his diagnosis became widely known to protect the other children. 117 parents (from a school of 360 total students) and 50 teachers signed a petition encouraging school leaders to ban White from school. Due to the widespread fear and ignorance of AIDS, the principal and later the school board assented so that the rest of the students would not get sick.

Ryan White - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the reason for that is hardly unknown: right wingers have always had a distaste and mistrust of the scientific community and hence, get their ideas from their pols and Church leaders. . .

Opposing the Kennedy-Hatch AIDS bill in 1988, Helms stated, "There is not one single case of AIDS in this country that cannot be traced in origin to sodomy".[

Jesse Helms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's clear that such comments weren't perceived as ignorance at the time given that Helms was re-voted back after having said it.

Sure, it would be wonderful to believe that the right wing population of MO could just dismiss Akin's comments as just silliness as any educated person would, but history (as cited above) has proven that many of them do not and suck in statements like these into their heads, and then, people suffer (as Ryan White did).

In this case, of course, young women will suffer, from all those conservative dudes who listened to Akin's comments and absorbed it into their minds, the same way their brethren 30 years ago absorbed comments about gays from Helms, other pols and Church leaders into their heads.

It's because of this historical fact that the only prudent course of action is to go into every high school in MO, round up all the adolescents with GOP leanings, and shove them into a re-education camp for about 6 months until they realize the underlying truth re: the topic on which Akin spoke.

Yep, it's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it. But don't worry--I'm Libertarian, and don't believe the money for these camps should burden taxpayers. I will volunteer to start a charity and raise money for it. At least the lunches at the re-education facilities won't cost much--we'll just sign a deal w/Chick-Fil A for the meals.
.

Well done!

Thank you :)
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

He claimed females bodies can shut down procreation specifically in response to a "legitimate rape" and that is one hundred percent false.

That is not quite right. He said the female body can "try" to shut down procreation in response to rape, and that conception is thus "rare." That is true.

It is not a response specifically to rape, and in that sense it would be false. I suspect he doesn't fully understand the mechanism he's talking about (like I said, it was probably fed to him by some advisor). But the statement that conception from rape is less likely because the female body will lower its fertility is correct.

You're fighting dishonesty with dishonesty.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

I don't care if he said "voluntarily" or not. If there's sperm and an egg, pregnancy is a possibility. Does this guy need to go back to "abstinence only" sex ed? Apparently he didn't even absorb that information.[/QUOTE

The argument he should have used is that abortion isn't necessary if one is raped since there's a morning-after pill.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

The argument he should have used is that abortion isn't necessary if one is raped since there's a morning-after pill.

...Which is still a crappy argument, because EC is imperfect and sometimes fails.

The reality is, a small percentage of raped women do become pregnant from the rape, despite biological triggers that make it less likely, and despite the use of EC. The question is, for those women, do you or do you not support access to abortion?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Well... he's scientifically correct. It is indeed true that the female body is drastically less likely to conceive from a rape, or while any other severe stressors are going on.

But how the hell does that answer the question? The question was not "how common is pregnancy resulting from rape?" The question was "would you deny a woman who's been rape access to abortion?"

I suppose he did, in a round-about way, which was "yes." We should force women to get raped all over again by carrying an unwanted fetus to term so they can reminded of their rape for the rest of their lives. Wonderful.

What a sick individual.


Stress might affect ovulation, but where is the evidence that it affect conception? Conception can only take place after ovulation has occurred, so if a women happens to be raped while she's going through ovulation, and the sperm get to the egg, fertilization will occur, and it's still very much a "legitimate rape".
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Stress might affect ovulation, but where is the evidence that it affect conception? Conception can only take place after ovulation has occurred, so if a women happens to be raped while she's going through ovulation, and the sperm get to the egg, fertilization will occur, and it's still very much a "legitimate rape".

Right here.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...arely-results-pregnancy-3.html#post1060814702

Extreme stress reduces the chances of not only conception, but also viable pregnancy. Early miscarriage is very common even under the best of circumstances. It is not as though birth is inevitable whenever conception occurs. It is actually more likely it will be expelled. And even more so when under extreme stress.

Some women who are raped will still become pregnant and maintain the pregnancy. But it is less likely. If they do, it does not make their rape any less "legitimate." But it is scientifically true that it is less likely.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Anyone who has tried to get pregnant can tell you that it can take months sometimes. A lot of sex can occur over the course of months. A lot. But only one of those times will result in pregnancy. So pregnancy from consensual sex is "rare"--w/e percentage 1 is of the total umber of times the couple has sex over the course of months while trying to have a baby.
Pregnancy from consensual sex is "rare".

So what're the stats?
How much more "rare" is it to conceive via consensual sex, or non-"legitimate rape", vs "legitimate rape"?
Is it more "rare"?

Are there any stats?
Or are there only FOAF stories?

For a healthy couple, your chances of getting pregnant in any one month is 25-30%, but it's also about timing. While sperm can stay in a women for up to 7 days, the egg can only survive for up to 36 hours after being released. If a women happens to be raped just when her body is ready to released the egg (which is induced by FSH) or it has been released, then the chances of her egg being fertilized by the sperm is the same whether it was consensual or not.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

For a healthy couple, your chances of getting pregnant in any one month is 25-30%, but it's also about timing. While sperm can stay in a women for up to 7 days, the egg can only survive for up to 36 hours after being released. If a women happens to be raped just when her body is ready to released the egg (which is induced by FSH) or it has been released, then the chances of her egg being fertilized by the sperm is the same whether it was consensual or not.

That is not true. See above.

Rape triggers a stress response which is shown to lower the chances of regular ovulation, conception, and viable pregnancy.

I feel like it's insane I have to disclaim this, but given how people have responded thus far, I will: I am not defending the anti-choicer in the OP. I am defending scientific accuracy. It does not matter to me if the chances are lower. Women who are raped deserve access to abortion. Any woman deserves access to abortion. However, I will not abandon accuracy to make that point. I don't have to.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Akin's argument sounds a whole lot like, "In a dress like that, she was asking for it." He's essentially saying that if the woman's body doesn't reject her rapist's seed, it wasn't really rape because her body knew that she wanted it and responded accordingly.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

The argument he should have used is that abortion isn't necessary if one is raped since there's a morning-after pill.

Is he in favor of that though? I'd be shocked if he was.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Is he in favor of that though? I'd be shocked if he was.

So would I. Usually, the pro life extremists think that the morning after pill is an "abortion pill."
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

From the link in the OP:

So, since according to him, pregnancy from a rape is rare, a woman should not be allowed to get an abortion in those rare cases.
Meaning, he wants the government to force a woman to carry a zygote to term regardless of the circumstances.

and he's a six term Congressman. Who keeps electing these guys?
The idiots in the suburbs around St. Louis!

I've got a friend there and sometimes I fear for his political well-being. Like any of us he can be influenced by his neighbors - and in his case his neighbors are, well, not the sharpest knives in the drawer as far as their convictions go. :(

They and their ilk recently helped push through an amendment to the Missouri Constitution that allows parents to let their kids skip Evolution in school. *sigh* Well, at least it's not as bad as Kansas, they downright outlawed teaching Evolution a few years ago.
 
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Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Missouri isn't exactly "The South". Even our secession during the Civil War is questionable, if you believe it at all. There's still no excuse for this GOP moron or his actions. Sadly, the St. Louis suburbs are full of these kind of people. The funny thing about that is St. Louis was always Union territory. LOL!
 
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Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

So eveyone in the south and all Tea Party members are .....what? Are you sure it's not 99.9999 percent?

Don't read into what I wrote. I try and choose my words with care. The South and the Tea Party provide people who have an ability to say the most silly, hilarious things. Nothing will probably top the "Keep the government's hands off my Medicare" though.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

The idiots in the suburbs around St. Louis!

This guy might be about to learn the hard way that what plays in a safe Republican district won't go very far on a wider basis.

It's like Michele Bachmann. She'll keep getting re-elected, because as long as she writes an "R" after her name, she'll win that district. They've literally drawn it to make sure that there's almost no Democrats that live there. But that's as far as she's going.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Nothing will probably top the "Keep the government's hands off my Medicare" though.

Yet they seem to keep trying.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Don't read into what I wrote. I try and choose my words with care. The South and the Tea Party provide people who have an ability to say the most silly, hilarious things. Nothing will probably top the "Keep the government's hands off my Medicare" though.

yes, that's almost as stupid as saying "they want to put ya'll back in chains"
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

the guy is a moron
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Right here.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...arely-results-pregnancy-3.html#post1060814702

Extreme stress reduces the chances of not only conception, but also viable pregnancy. Early miscarriage is very common even under the best of circumstances. It is not as though birth is inevitable whenever conception occurs. It is actually more likely it will be expelled. And even more so when under extreme stress.

Some women who are raped will still become pregnant and maintain the pregnancy. But it is less likely. If they do, it does not make their rape any less "legitimate." But it is scientifically true that it is less likely.

I understand and it's intuitive to me, that if a woman is under stress, she is less likely to get pregnant, but your links don't directly address rape as a trigger.

If you have unprotected sex you have 5% chance of getting pregnant and that is the same rate of pregnancy from rape.

Perhaps the closest we have to a robust figure is from a European study that recruited 782 young couples who did not use artificial contraception and who carefully recorded the day of every act (and there were a lot of them) until there had been 487 pregnancies. The simplest way to estimate the chance of pregnancy was to consider only cycles in which there had been only one act of intercourse. Peak times for pregnancies seemed to occur two days before ovulation – the chances of getting pregnant during this time was around 25%, confirming previous estimates. But the chances drop fairly steeply either side of the peak, to a 5% average over the rest of the cycle.

The bottom line is that a single act of intercourse between a young couple has on average a one in 20 chance of pregnancy – this assumes the opportunity presented itself on a random day, as these things tend do when you are young.Perhaps the closest we have to a robust figure is from a European study that recruited 782 young couples who did not use artificial contraception and who carefully recorded the day of every act (and there were a lot of them) until there had been 487 pregnancies. The simplest way to estimate the chance of pregnancy was to consider only cycles in which there had been only one act of intercourse. Peak times for pregnancies seemed to occur two days before ovulation – the chances of getting pregnant during this time was around 25%, confirming previous estimates. But the chances drop fairly steeply either side of the peak, to a 5% average over the rest of the cycle.
BBC - Future - Health - Sex: What are the chances?
Pregnancies Resulting from Rape

In 2004-2005, 64,080 women were raped.8 According to medical reports, the incidence of pregnancy for one-time unprotected sexual intercourse is 5%. By applying the pregnancy rate to 64,080 women, RAINN estimates that there were 3,204 pregnancies as a result of rape during that period.

Who are the Victims? | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network

These statistics don't seem to agree with rape as a trigger.

Another reason I challenge this is the congressman's assertion: "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.

He seems to be implying if it's not a "legitimate" rape, then pregnancy will result, thus calling the question as to whether the woman who gets pregnant was actually raped.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

the guy is a moron

90% of the population are morons. What is surprising is that this guy has managed to rise to relatively high political office being one.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

yes, that's almost as stupid as saying "they want to put ya'll back in chains"

So you don't know the difference between rhetoric and ignorance. Interesting.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

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Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

So you don't know the difference between rhetoric and ignorance. Interesting.

thanks for confirming your hypocrisy. ignorant rhetoric is still ignorance. the fact that you defend it is, indeed, interesting
 
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