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Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy[W:137]

Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

I don't care one way or another. I think a woman has a right to an abortion. however, I am not as pro feminist as one might think. I think if a couple engage in activities that are not intended to cause pregnancy yet the woman gets pregnant, and the male offers to pay for an abortion, and the female won't accept that, he should be off the hook for paternity payments

I consider myself a feminist, and I'll do you one better. The man should never be under a legal obligation to provide financially for what a woman does with her pregnancy, unless he signs a contract to the contrary. She has absolute control over the pregnancy. This means that, ethically, the man must either willing help, or be freed from responsibility to float the woman's decision. If she has complete control, she has complete responsibility, in the absence of a consensus between two partners.

If we are to argue women are equal beings to men, then they must also be equally responsible for their own decisions.

Personally? I tell all my partners before we ever have sex that if something goes wrong, I would abort, and I will not expect a dime. It provides them the chance to walk away then and there, before there is ever any risk of that happening. If they accept, they have no burden to pay for it. I did not ask for their opinion, so I won't permit them to help float mine. I would not feel comfortable with that.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

It is a stupid argument politically. But I recall back in the good old days when I worked at PP and spent every saturday morning for a couple years arguing with the RIght to Lifers and the Operation Rescue bible thumpers-this issue would come up constantly and I finally talked to a top OB/GYN and She noted that violent rape is far less likely to cause pregnancy than consensual sex. Now that was almost 40 years ago and I have no clue if that is still something she would say-she died about 20 years ago

Actually, now that I've thought it through, it wouldn't surprise me if it were true. When one is being raped, I'd imagine the female body is filled to the very brim with adrenalin. Adrenalin is a very powerful hormone. In order for a woman to get pregnant, her hormones have to be "somewhere near just right." Adrenalin could very well interfere with that.

Admittedly, an anti-abortionist, but a doctor nonetheless says:

In cases of rape, the rate of pregnancy is actually very rare. This is due to several factors which may affect conception. The victim is in immense emotional shock and her body in turn is affected. Statistics show that the rate of miscarriage is higher in these circumstances. A major factor contributing to the rare occurrence of conception in cases of rape is psychological trauma. Stress has been known to alter bodily functions, the menstrual cycle included. And in order for a woman to conceive a complex blend of hormones must be formed. The production of these certain hormones is easily affected by emotions, in which of course the rape itself factors in greatly. Hence, the chances of actual conception—ovulation, fertilization, implantation—for the rape victim are considerably lowered.

Rep. Todd Akin: Wrong, But Not Alone | Mother Jones

I most certainly don't agree with his stance, but my common sense tells me that what he said about pregnancy in rape situations may possibly be true. I doubt there've been studies. But I do know we're little chemical factories...and our chemistry has to be within certain normal parameters to get preggers.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Well... he's scientifically correct. It is indeed true that the female body is drastically less likely to conceive from a rape, or while any other severe stressors are going on.

But how the hell does that answer the question? The question was not "how common is pregnancy resulting from rape?" The question was "would you deny a woman who's been rape access to abortion?"

I suppose he did, in a round-about way, which was "no." We should force women to get raped all over again by carrying an unwanted fetus to term so they can reminded of their rape for the rest of their lives. Wonderful.

What a sick individual.

I cannot find a clear cut document, but I found this from a quick look: Health Directorate - Rape Related Pregnancy

[h=3]How likely is it to fall pregnant after being raped?[/h]It is difficult to determine how many pregnancies occur as a result of rape. A large study in America found that 5% of rapes resulted in a pregnancy. The majority of these pregnancies were in young women who had been raped by a known and often related person.

I would love to see some real documentation however.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

I consider myself a feminist, and I'll do you one better. The man should never be under a legal obligation to provide financially for what a woman does with her pregnancy, unless he signs a contract to the contrary. She has absolute control over the pregnancy. This means that, ethically, the man must either willing help, or be freed from responsibility to float the woman's decision. If she has complete control, she has complete responsibility, in the absence of a consensus between two partners.

If we are to argue women are equal beings to men, then they must also be equally responsible for their own decisions.

Personally? I tell all my partners before we ever have sex that if something goes wrong, I would abort, and I will not expect a dime. It provides them the chance to walk away then and there, before there is ever any risk of that happening. If they accept, they have no burden to pay for it. I did not ask for their opinion, so I won't permit them to help float mine. I would not feel comfortable with that.

damn where were you when I was single. You might have ended up being Mrs Turtle:mrgreen:
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

The Democratic Senate candidate from Missouri is a woman, so she won't see sex from a mans point of view.

Aha! That explains it! Rape is more of a man's issue. Brilliant!
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Aha! That explains it! Rape is more of a man's issue. Brilliant!

yeah especially in "the big house"
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Actually, now that I've thought it through, it wouldn't surprise me if it were true. When one is being raped, I'd imagine the female body is filled to the very brim with adrenalin. Adrenalin is a very powerful hormone. In order for a woman to get pregnant, her hormones have to be "somewhere near just right." Adrenalin could very well interfere with that.

Admittedly, an anti-abortionist, but a doctor nonetheless says:



Rep. Todd Akin: Wrong, But Not Alone | Mother Jones

I most certainly don't agree with his stance, but my common sense tells me that what he said about pregnancy in rape situations may possibly be true. I doubt there've been studies. But I do know we're little chemical factories...and our chemistry has to be within certain normal parameters to get preggers.

Trouble is we don't want a whole bunch of idiots hanging around in locker rooms encouraging rapes due to this "shut down" mechanism.

With republicans, we can definitely expect that, especially after one of their Messiahs (i. e. GOP Congressman) validates it in their minds.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Trouble is we don't want a whole bunch of idiots hanging around in locker rooms encouraging rapes due to this "shut down" mechanism.

With republicans, we can definitely expect that, especially after one of their Messiahs (i. e. GOP Congressman) validates it in their minds.


that's a rather stupid jump there. I don't think the guy is encouraging rapes, rather he is claiming that the main argument for abortion on demand is not as common as perhaps he believes his opponents say it is
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

What he actually meant to say was "When an anti-abortion GOP pol tries to get it up, politically or otherwise, the female voter has ways to shut that whole thing down."
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

You understand that this GOP senate candidate was dead serious, right? He wasn't joking. He isn't even claiming he was joking. How could you compare that to an obvious joke?

You seriously think that dumbass was joking?

This guy said something that if not taken emotionally, at least could be true. The other guy is just that ****ing ignorant, which is worse?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Interesting how Republican politicians always feel the need to distinguish "legitimate" rape from (I guess) "fake" rape. You don't see them doing that when they talk about assault or burglary or whatever, do you?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

You seriously think that dumbass was joking?

That is just asinine that you're going to sit there and pretend that you didn't know he was joking... I don't even know what to make of it. You couldn't possibly actually believe that... You thought he literally thought the island would tip over? That's one of his long standing issues- that our military bases on the island were overwhelming the local infrastructure and whatnot. He has always pushed for us to invest more in the local schools and roads and whatnot to offset the damage we were doing. He's written reports on it and whatnot dude.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

damn where were you when I was single. You might have ended up being Mrs Turtle:mrgreen:

Probably in mandatory schooling. ;)

Interestingly, my boyfriend is a libertarian. See? We progressives aren't all bad.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Trouble is we don't want a whole bunch of idiots hanging around in locker rooms encouraging rapes due to this "shut down" mechanism.

With republicans, we can definitely expect that, especially after one of their Messiahs (i. e. GOP Congressman) validates it in their minds.

And we have a new low for stupidity and classlessness in one post. Well done!

PROTIP: when your whole argument is demonzing the other side, it's not a good argument.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

Interesting how Republican politicians always feel the need to distinguish "legitimate" rape from (I guess) "fake" rape. You don't see them doing that when they talk about assault or burglary or whatever, do you?

There is a difference between forcible rape and stuff that is often called date rape. ask any cop or prosecutor. Or if you watched the William Kennedy Smith case (which I did from start to finish) you would understand.
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

From the link in the OP:

(CNN) – U.S. Rep. Todd Akin, who won Missouri's GOP Senate primary earlier this month and will face incumbent Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill in November's general election, said Sunday that he misspoke when he claimed "legitimate rape" rarely resulted in pregnancy.

Answering a question about whether or not he thought abortion should be legal in the case of rape, Akin explained his opposition by citing unnamed bodily responses he said prevented pregnancy.

So, since according to him, pregnancy from a rape is rare, a woman should not be allowed to get an abortion in those rare cases.
Meaning, he wants the government to force a woman to carry a zygote to term regardless of the circumstances.

and he's a six term Congressman. Who keeps electing these guys?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

There is a difference between forcible rape and stuff that is often called date rape. ask any cop or prosecutor. Or if you watched the William Kennedy Smith case (which I did from start to finish) you would understand.

I see. So "date rape" is "fake" and only stranger rape is "legitimate rape". Is that what you're saying? So if a woman goes on a date with somebody and doesn't want to have sex with him, that's not really rape-rape if he forces her to?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

How about mandatory court ordered vasectomies for every man who doesn't pay child support for more than 12 months and for every man over 50. He can have the option of having his sperm frozen in case he marries a trophy wife.

How about mandatory dismissal of every federally elected official that is proven to have had an affair while in office?

That'd be one way to get rid of half sumbitches in Washington.

Or, as odd as it may seem, how about letting women decide for themselves what they choose to do with their own bodies?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

I see. So "date rape" is "fake" and only stranger rape is "legitimate rape". Is that what you're saying? So if a woman goes on a date with somebody and doesn't want to have sex with him, that's not really rape-rape if he forces her to?

nope you of course want to mischaracterize the point

if someone has been beaten up menaced with a weapon or physical violence it is pretty obvious that the intercourse was a crime

if the woman says she "said no" and the guy said she said yes and there is no physical evidence of coercion than there is the DISTINCT POSSIBILITY that the woman is not being truthful. The Jury acquitted William Kennedy Smith because they did not believe Patty Bowman's claim that the sex was non-consensual

In Cincinnati, UC basketball star Louis Banks was accused of "date rape" by a woman who claimed they had NON-Consensual sex on FRIDAY NIGHT but CONSENSUAL sex the following night. How that made it past the grand jury is a puzzler but he was quickly acquitted by the jury because as the jury foreman noted on live tv-she was obviously a LIAR.

its all about the evidence-something most attorneys understand
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

nope you of course want to mischaracterize the point

if someone has been beaten up menaced with a weapon or physical violence it is pretty obvious that the intercourse was a crime

if the woman says she "said no" and the guy said she said yes and there is no physical evidence of coercion than there is the DISTINCT POSSIBILITY that the woman is not being truthful. The Jury acquitted William Kennedy Smith because they did not believe Patty Bowman's claim that the sex was non-consensual

In Cincinnati, UC basketball star Louis Banks was accused of "date rape" by a woman who claimed they had NON-Consensual sex on FRIDAY NIGHT but CONSENSUAL sex the following night. How that made it past the grand jury is a puzzler but he was quickly acquitted by the jury because as the jury foreman noted on live tv-she was obviously a LIAR.

its all about the evidence-something most attorneys understand

TD, the depths you are willing to sink to just know no end do they?

Again, why do you think it is that Republicans seem so suspicious that the victim is lying in the case of rape, but not in the case of assault or burglary or whatever?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

TD, the depths you are willing to sink to just know no end do they?

Again, why do you think it is that Republicans seem so suspicious that the victim is lying in the case of rape, but not in the case of assault or burglary or whatever?


why do you continually make claims about my posts that have no relation to reality? I am merely pointing out that in two prominent date rape cases the man and the woman both agreed they had sex and the jury believed the man and not the woman.

You seem to engage in more of your far left hand wringing nonsense where you feel a need to add details to my comments--details I never even insinuated I support.

what was I sinking too? why does the san francisco far left want to scream sexism when there is none?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

why do you continually make claims about my posts that have no relation to reality? I am merely pointing out that in two prominent date rape cases the man and the woman both agreed they had sex and the jury believed the man and not the woman.

You seem to engage in more of your far left hand wringing nonsense where you feel a need to add details to my comments--details I never even insinuated I support.

what was I sinking too? why does the san francisco far left want to scream sexism when there is none?

TD are you really going to sit there and pretend that you think 2 cases tell you something about a nation of 311 million people?

Again, is there any honorable reason, that you are more suspicious that rape victims are lying than the victims of other types of crime? Or is it just blind, ignorant, hate?
 
Re: Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy

TD are you really going to sit there and pretend that you think 2 cases tell you something about a nation of 311 million people?

Again, is there any honorable reason, that you are more suspicious that rape victims are lying than the victims of other types of crime? Or is it just blind, ignorant, hate?

More disgraceful mischaracterization. I never said anything about suspicions. I am saying that its far easier to establish a rape took place when there is evidence of violence, threats of harm, weapons etc then when the ONLY material fact in dispute was consent

Nothing more nothing less

when you want to honestly discuss what i ACTUALLY SAID let me know
 
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