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Thread: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    I am grounded in reality
    Best joke of the year.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Look, people:


    When someone commits a crime for the purpose of striking fear into a group, and that person is a member/possesser/purveyor of hate-group propaganda, then the crime has much more broad implications for society. The person is not merely committing a crime against a race or gender they don't like. The person is committing a crime for the express purpose of creating terror, and is doing so via organized propaganda.


    Those two things in bold? REQUIREMENTS for a hate crime conviction.
    you defined terrorism. why do we need another definition?
    "Just get the hell out of my way" John Galt to the government in Atlas Shrugged.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    only in the fantasy world inhabited by liberals. murder is murder, what the criminal was thinking at the time makes absolutely no difference.

    BTW, you cannot legislate thought, you cannot control what people think. I would like to make all liberal thought illegal, but unfortunately thats not going to happen
    Using this argument he cannot be charged as a domestic terrorist.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    you defined terrorism. why do we need another definition?
    Hate crime legislation passed well before terrorism acts....
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    the differences between 1st and 2nd degree murder are based on circumstances of the crime, not the thoughts of the murderer.

    If a woman kills her husband because she hates him, is that a hate crime?
    No. Absolutely, unambiguously...no.

    Why? Because (as already explained...here we go AGAIN) the situation you have described, as you have described it, doesn't come anywhere close to the legal grounds for pursuing an HCE in sentencing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    thats the problem with this, the definitions are all over the place.
    The definitions are NOT all over the place. They are clear and explicit. They are PRETENDED to be otherwise in order to strawman the general case for HCE's. The problem is not unclear definitions, but ignorance and intellectual dishonesty in misrepresenting the definitions.

    It is rare for an HCE to even be pursued by a prosecutor, because the evidentiary burden is much heavier than most people imagine. An HCE typically would NOT obtain, for example, for someone shouting slurs in the middle of an assault. The prosecutor would typically have to show -- through evidence, not supposition -- that the offender(s) had a demonstrated history of specific animus against the victim which went well beyond the heat of the moment in the attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    Yes, but not whether he loves or hates the victim.
    As above, the relevant distinction in cases of possible HCE's is not whether or not the offender is shown to have hated the victim generally, but whether or not that hatred was part of some larger concretely demonstrated pattern of specific animus for members of a protected class.

    Again: we may argue endlessly about HCE's, but at the very least we should do so based upon what HCE's actually are and how they actually operate, not upon strawmen.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    you defined terrorism. why do we need another definition?
    Tell Redress!

    I gave you the US hate crime law. Learn it before the spewing continues.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-17-12 at 04:49 PM.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Everything. I've quoted the DOJ in regards to hate crimes. Both hate crimes and terrorism have larger implications than the murder that took place.
    Ok one more time.

    1. a white guy murders a black guy to steal his wallet

    2. a different white guy murders a black guy because he hates blacks

    you want to give guy #2 a harsher punishment. Why? because you don't approve of what he was thinking. That is foolishness.
    "Just get the hell out of my way" John Galt to the government in Atlas Shrugged.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I've never understood the legal distinction between murder and attempted murder. To me, this says you get a partial free-pass for being incompetent. To me, if you planned and meant and tried to kill them, success or failure should be irrelevant.
    The resulting harm is substantially different (attempted murder means the victim is still alive...murder means they are dead).

    If you don't understand the difference between alive and dead, then you need more help than I could reasonably provide in the context of an online forum.

    If you, instead, DO understand that difference, then you actually DO understand the basis of the legal distinction between murder vs. attempted murder, and instead of not understanding...you simply disagree with the principle involved (which is to provide for more severe penalties for some crimes vs. others based upon the damange caused).
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Tell Redress!

    I gave you the US hate crime law. Learn it before the spewing continues.
    What are you babling about. I actually quoted the definitionj in US law of domestic terrorism.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    Ok one more time.

    1. a white guy murders a black guy to steal his wallet

    2. a different white guy murders a black guy because he hates blacks

    you want to give guy #2 a harsher punishment. Why? because you don't approve of what he was thinking. That is foolishness.
    I ask again: do you approve of this case being tried as domestic terrorism, since using your argument domsetic terrorism laws are wrong, since they are based on motivation.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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