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Thread: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

  1. #61
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It is a bias motivated crime.So yes it is a hate crime.I believe justice should be fair and that attempted murderer should be charged with a hate crime.

    I do believe that hate crime laws should be struck down.1st degree murder should be just 1st degree of murder, attempted murder should be just attempted murder,rape should be just rape and so on.If you are beaten up,stabbed,shot,raped,robbed or dead I do not think its going to make you feel any better if the assailant doesn't hate you and you are just as beaten up,shot,raped,stabbed,robbed or dead as the guy whose assailant hates him.
    I've never understood the legal distinction between murder and attempted murder. To me, this says you get a partial free-pass for being incompetent. To me, if you planned and meant and tried to kill them, success or failure should be irrelevant.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    Yes, but not whether he loves or hates the victim.
    That doesn't really matter. But you continue to ignore reality.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    what implications? that someone else will do it? that someone's feelings were hurt because a murderer did not like their race?

    You liberals need to move out of fantasy land and spend some time in the real world.
    You do understand that setting fire to a mass transportation vehicle (even empty) is punished differently than just regular arson right? That one is punished as terrorism the other arson. That one is seen as a threat to society the other is a crazy person.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    I don't like the concept of hate crimes, but it appears that he did this directly in relation to the beliefs held by the Family Research Council. I would say his main motive was hate over their beliefs and not a murderous intent for an individual.
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    You do understand that setting fire to a mass transportation vehicle (even empty) is punished differently than just regular arson right? That one is punished as terrorism the other arson. That one is seen as a threat to society the other is a crazy person.
    yes, but what does that have to do with hate crimes?
    "Just get the hell out of my way" John Galt to the government in Atlas Shrugged.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    1) Kill someone with pre-meditation because he slept with your wife.
    2) Kill someone with pre-meditation because they are something you don't like (aka "hate" crimes).
    3) Kill someone in the course of a planned robbery. The victim may be random, and it may not be personal against that specific individual, but the crime is still pre-meditated.

    All three would/should qualify as 1st degree murder. The thought process behind each one is irrelevant. The fact that it was intended to happen IS relevant, and thus qualifies it for the highest degree of legally allowable punishment.
    So you wouldn't call the difference between trying to injure someone or kill someone a thought process?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Look, people:


    When someone commits a crime for the purpose of striking fear into a group, and that person is a member/possesser/purveyor of hate-group propaganda, then the crime has much more broad implications for society. The person is not merely committing a crime against a race or gender they don't like. The person is committing a crime for the express purpose of creating terror, and is doing so via organized propaganda.


    Those two things in bold? REQUIREMENTS for a hate crime conviction in the US. If BOTH requirements are not met, it is NOT a hate crime under US law.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-17-12 at 04:46 PM.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That doesn't really matter. But you continue to ignore reality.
    I am grounded in reality, its you who is living in fantasy. you cannot legislate morals or thoughts, and that is what you are trying to do.

    the liberal idea is: if you don't think as I do, I am going to punish you.
    "Just get the hell out of my way" John Galt to the government in Atlas Shrugged.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    yes, but what does that have to do with hate crimes?
    Everything. I've quoted the DOJ in regards to hate crimes. Both hate crimes and terrorism have larger implications than the murder that took place.

    Of all crimes, hate crimes are most likely to create or exacerbate tensions, which can trigger larger community-wide racial conflict, civil disturbances, and even riots. Hate crimes put cities and towns at-risk of serious social and economic consequences. The immediate costs of racial conflicts and civil disturbances are police, fire, and medical personnel overtime, injury or death, business and residential property loss, and damage to vehicles and equipment. Long-term recovery is hindered by a decline in property values, which results in lower tax revenues, scarcity of funds for rebuilding, and increased insurance rates. Businesses and residents abandon these neighborhoods, leaving empty buildings to attract crime, and the quality of schools decline due to the loss of tax revenue. A municipality may have no choice but to cut services or raise taxes or leave the area in its post-riot condition until market forces of supply and demand rebuild the area."
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    How can you determine if there is hate in someone's heart? Unless there is CLEAR evidence of hate (such as racial slurs, things like that), I don't see how anyone can assume to know how someone else feels. That is just one reason why I don't feel comfortable with hate crime legislation.

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