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Thread: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So you do not think he should be prosecuted for domestic terrorism?
    Hate crimes (as per actual US legal definition, not the average person's guess as to what that means) are terrorism.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    It could be a hate crime although I find it funny that a hate group is bitching about that.
    You say that as if "hate" is a one-way street.
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Define "hate".

    As it applies to motivation behind a crime.

    (General comment, for everybody)
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  4. #34
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Kinda irrelevant to anything said. You where wrong, just admit it.
    It's relevant. Throwing out motivation throws out the existence of manslaughter.

    Has nothiong to do with my reason for opposing hate crime laws. For the record, the reason I oppose them is they set up protected classes in terms of certain crimes. Not needed, not helpful.
    You're wrong. There have been hate crime convictions for crimes again white males. There is no "protected class". It's very simple:

    1. A person has official hate-group membership and/or propaganda of a hate group (which targets the victim's race/gender in the case).
    2. The person committed the crime for the purpose of terrorizing the target group.

    Without 1., above, there is no hate crime, regardless of 2.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-17-12 at 03:08 PM.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    The whole hate crime designation is complete BS. Murder is murder, it doesn't matter why you murder someone they are just as dead.
    So there should be no difference between manslaughter, 1st Degree or 2nd Degree then?
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    So there should be no difference between manslaughter, 1st Degree or 2nd Degree then?
    Redress is right about 1st and 2nd degree being more a matter of method than motivation. But obviously the difference between murder and manslaughter is necessary.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hate crimes (as per actual US legal definition, not the average person's guess as to what that means) are terrorism.
    That would be wrong again. 18 USC § 2331 - Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute

    (5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
    (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
    (B) appear to be intended—
    (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
    (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
    (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping
    Significantly different from the law on hate crimes.
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Don't make the mistake of confusing motivation with intent. Separations between 1st degree, 2nd degree, manslaughter, etc., generally have to do with intent and/or pre-meditation (forethought and planning).

    There are probably a few things that could be tightened up a bit, but overall there should be a distinction in intent.
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It's relevant. Throwing out motivation throws out the existence of manslaughter.
    Motivation can be part of a determination of voluntary manslaughter vs second degree murder, however it is not the primary method to determine which a murder is.

    You're wrong. There have been hate crime convictions for crimes again white males. There is no "protected class". It's very simple:

    1. A person has official hate-group membership and/or propaganda of a hate group (which targets the victim's race/gender in the case).
    2. The person committed the crime for the purpose of terrorizing the target group.

    Without 1., above, there is no hate crime, regardless of 2.
    White is a race. Race is protected under hate crime laws.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham
    I’ve always believed that America is an idea, not defined by its people but by its ideals. - Lindsey Graham

  10. #40
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That would be wrong again. 18 USC § 2331 - Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute Significantly different from the law on hate crimes.
    You need to read the law on hate crimes in the US, because you ain't got a clue what it refers to. You think it creates "protected classes". This demonstrates a deep misunderstanding of the law in question.

    Hate crimes are a form of terrorism. Understanding hate crime law makes this plainly clear.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-17-12 at 03:17 PM.

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