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Thread: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

  1. #191
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, that's your opinion. IMO, this kind of legislation opens the door to all kinds of "NEW and IMPROVED" (or so they will have you believe/without considering possible unintentional consequences - - there always are) laws and bans and control. Why is hate crime legislation coming from the FEDERAL government? I don't think it's the governments place to tell anyone how to think or feel, or to say that these thoughts and feelings are worse than these thoughts and feelings. I don't feel comfortable with this kind of legislation at all.

    So, I guess we just agree to disagree then. It was nice talking with someone who can actually be respectful and kind though. Thanks for that.

    Look to the state statues Chris.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    I think that if it's a hate crime to shoot up a Muslim mosque/institution, the same must hold true if it's a Christian church/institution.

  3. #193
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I think that if it's a hate crime to shoot up a Muslim mosque/institution, the same must hold true if it's a Christian church/institution.
    There's no such thing -- legally speaking -- as a hate crime ON ITS OWN. It's NOT a separate offense.

    It's not a hate crime to shoot up a mosque OR a church.

    It IS a crime -- and a strong candidate for a potential hate crime enhancement -- to shoot up a mosque or church AND BE SHOWN IN COURT TO HAVE DONE SO ON THE BASIS OF SPECIFIC ANIMUS TOWARDS MUSLIMS OR CHRISTIANS.

    It is ALREADY the case that someone can indeed be convicted and have an HCE tacked on for shooting up a church or Christian institution.

    The EXACT SAME CRITERIA for carrying an HCE in sentencing applies.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  4. #194
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    There's no such thing -- legally speaking -- as a hate crime ON ITS OWN. It's NOT a separate offense.

    There are, however, hate crime enhancements, which increase the severity of a sentence for already having been convicted of a criminal act.

    It is ALREADY the case that someone can indeed be convicted and have an HCE tacked on for shooting up a church or Christian institution.

    The EXACT SAME CRITERIA for carrying an HCE in sentencing applies.
    I see. Would there then be an HCE for this guy shooting up a religious institution?

  5. #195
    Professor cmakaioz's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I see. Would there then be an HCE for this guy shooting up a religious institution?
    POSSIBLY. HCE's require a substantial additional burden of evidence.

    A prosecutor would have to show through evidence (not assertion), at least the following:

    1. commission of a crime;
    2. demonstration of specific animus on the part of the criminal against the targets/victims of the crime on the basis of their membership in a protected class;
    3. demonstration that the specific animus (#2) was the basis of their committing the crime (#1)



    Anything short of that = No HCE.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  6. #196
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    Do you belief there should be a distinction between premeditated murder and regular murder? Same thing.
    Motive is not the same thing as intent. Motive is not the same thing as planning.

    When you criminalize motive, you criminalize thought.

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