Page 18 of 20 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 196

Thread: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

  1. #171
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    06-28-17 @ 10:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,909

    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    If a crime carries a heavier punishment than it otherwise would, because it is presumed to have been motivated by a thought that, in itself wouldn't have been a crime, then this does indeed have the effect of criminalizing the thought.
    No it does not.....

    The intent which is called mens rea is the guilty mind....... that alone is not punishable.....

    It must accompanied by the "act" or actus reus...without which there is no crime.

    In other words an individual can hate a group based on race, religion etc etc all they want and do so for the rest of their lives with impunity. The moment they act and commit a crime against the group they hate then there is a manifestation of the hate and then it is punishable as a hate crime.

  2. #172
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,400

    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    In other words an individual can hate a group based on race, religion etc etc all they want and do so for the rest of their lives with impunity. The moment they act and commit a crime against the group they hate then there is a manifestation of the hate and then it is punishable as a hate crime.
    To be convicted of a hate crime, one must be a member of or possess hate-group propaganda. And, of course, there cannot be other significant motives in the crime.

    So, one could be a hardcore racist and kill someone (because they are black) while screaming 'I hate black people', but if one takes their wallet and doesn't have any memberships/propaganda (in ones possession)... no hate crime conviction.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-18-12 at 07:17 PM.

  3. #173
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    If the Federal Government is "struggling to determine if it's a hate crime," or even if the Federal Government is totally silent on something, than it's probably a hate crime by the left.
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

    Death to Globalists

  4. #174
    Professor cmakaioz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Last Seen
    01-22-13 @ 02:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,582

    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The simple FACT of the matter is that you and others cannot read minds. THAT is the ONLY FACT here.
    Incorrect. As you have failed to muster even a rudimentary level of substance...to the bin with you. I can't spend calories on someone who insists on denying not only readily accessible facts, but also refuses to acknowledge the difference between fact and opinion.

    My post above was repetitive because you keep repeating the same mistake of completely ignoring what's in front of you. I suspect I could point out to you a thousand more times that HCE's aren't based upon policing thought, and you'd still go on your merry way pretending otherwise.

    To the bin with you.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  5. #175
    Professor cmakaioz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Last Seen
    01-22-13 @ 02:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,582

    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It was apparently motivated by hatred over their political and social views, so it could be construed as a hate crime....
    Actually, that's what would PREVENT it from carrying a hate crime enhancement. Those-who-hold-a-certain-political-stance is NOT a protected class.

    For the gazillionth time, folks:

    Hate crime enhancements can't just be tacked on, willy-nilly, to any criminal act deemed to have been committed out of "hating something," i.e.:

    This guy hated that other guy's tie and punched him for having lousy taste. Hate crime enhancement? NO.

    There are three absolute minimum criteria involved:
    1) Conviction of a criminal act.
    2) Demonstration -- through evidence not supposition -- that the offender bears, or bore at the time of the crime, a specific animus towards the victim(s) on the basis of the victim's perceived membership in a protected class
    3) Demonstration -- through evidence not supposition -- that #1 was done out of a motivation based upon #2.

    If ANY of the above 3 criteria are not demonstrated to the satisfaction of the court, then there's no HCE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    except I don't believe in "hate crimes legislation". Crime is crime. Charge the shooter with attempted murder and be done with it.
    Based upon your post, you don't understand hate crime legislation...so you are opposing what you have mistaken HCE's to be. You may indeed still oppose HCE's after grasping what they actually are, but based upon your post you do not (yet) have that understanding.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  6. #176
    Professor cmakaioz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Last Seen
    01-22-13 @ 02:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,582

    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Cmakaioz, I have a question for you. Do you think white people or Christians can be victims of hate crimes?
    That's not a matter of opinion. Of course "white" people and/or Christians can be victims of hate crimes. Anyone who believes otherwise can only do so through ignorance or denial of what hate crime enhancements are, or how they work.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  7. #177
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    06-28-17 @ 10:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,909

    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    To be convicted of a hate crime, one must be a member of or possess hate-group propaganda. And, of course, there cannot be other significant motives in the crime.

    So, one could be a hardcore racist and kill someone (because they are black) while screaming 'I hate black people', but if one takes their wallet and doesn't have any memberships/propaganda (in ones possession)... no hate crime conviction.
    Not as far as the law is concerned.... For example, "18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 2710. (c) Definition.–As used in this section “malicious intention” means the intention to commit any act, the commission of which is a necessary element of any offense referred to in subsection (a) motivated by hatred toward the race, color, religion or national origin of another individual or group of individuals."

  8. #178
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,400

    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Not as far as the law is concerned.... For example, "18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 2710. (c) Definition.–As used in this section “malicious intention” means the intention to commit any act, the commission of which is a necessary element of any offense referred to in subsection (a) motivated by hatred toward the race, color, religion or national origin of another individual or group of individuals."
    Yes as far as the law is concerned. I've thoroughly read the Hate Crime and Hate Speech laws. Aside from "malicious intention", there must be no other significant motives and the person must be a member of or have (in their possession) propaganda from a hate-group that targets the victim's race/gender.

    Another possible significant motive? Not Hate Crime.
    No membership to or possession of hate-group propaganda? Not Hate Crime.

    Those two things are REQUIREMENTS, or a Hate Crime conviction cannot legally take place.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-18-12 at 11:22 PM.

  9. #179
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    06-28-17 @ 10:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,909

    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yes as far as the law is concerned. I've thoroughly read the Hate Crime and Hate Speech laws. Aside from "malicious intention", there must be no other significant motives and the person must be a member of or have (in their possession) propaganda from a hate-group that targets the victim's race/gender.

    Another possible significant motive? Not Hate Crime.
    No membership to or possession of hate-group propaganda? Not Hate Crime.

    Those two things are REQUIREMENTS, or a Hate Crime conviction cannot legally take place.
    Not according to the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania:

    "Human beings may act with a single, exclusive motive; they may act for multiple reasons. Where one intent is criminal under § 2710 and the other not, the question is not which is primary or dominant. If the evidence of criminal intent (here, racial animus) is sufficiently established, it cannot be negated by establishing that a second intent coexisted in the mind of the actor. Such a rule would lead to an absurd result which the legislature did not intend. See 1 Pa.C.S. § 1922(1) (legislature does not intend result that is absurd, impossible of execution, or unreasonable). Accordingly, we hold § 2710’s intent element is satisfied if there is evidence that ethnic malice was a motivator for the defendant’s criminal act; it need not be the sole motivator."(see COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA v SINNOTT)

  10. #180
    Professor cmakaioz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Last Seen
    01-22-13 @ 02:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,582

    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    You asked Cmakaioz, but I'll answer this too: No. A majority-power group cannot be the target of a hate crime, because by definition, a hate crime targets an oppressed group, NOT an individual. Otherwise, it is a crime against an individual only and should be prosecuted as such.
    Incorrect. While hate crime enhancements are far, FAR less likely to be obtained if/when the target of a crime is (or is perceived to be) the member of a privileged or dominant group on the axis of the protected class, it's still possible. The catch isn't that privileged and dominant groups (on a given axis) CAN'T be targeted...rather, it's that they are much less likely to be targets in the first place, and the potential perpetrators who would ostensibly target them -- typically NOT being of the same group -- face much higher risks.

    Another -- rarely discussed -- aspect is that the perpetrators of hate crimes are far more likely to come from among groups which are privileged (on the axis in question) because of the sense of invulnerability or entitlement that comes with such privilege. It's much harder to maintain a pretense (let alone sincere belief) in something like black supremacism while living in the United States, because the concrete indicators of financial success and political influence (i.e. income, holding positions in high office, heading up big business, etc.) all contradict such a doctrine. This doesn't absolutely prevent such a doctrine, but it does make it more difficult to hold on to. White supremacists, on the other hand, can point to real, concrete, pervasive advantages of "whites" over nonwhites in many aspects of daily life (which they then warp and distort to lend ideological support to all manner of nonsense). Put another way: you're less likely to believe both in the righteousness AND in the likelihood of getting away with something if and when your political and economic context either doesn't contradict that expectation, or at least does so only weakly.
    Last edited by cmakaioz; 08-18-12 at 11:32 PM.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

Page 18 of 20 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •