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Thread: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

  1. #151
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Actually, under the definition I gave, I am not against classifying rape as a hate crime.
    Like I said, I only used that as an example of how ignorant this legislation is. It is sufficient to convict the perpetrator of RAPE. The end result of the crime is the same regardless of the motive.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post

    It was apparently motivated by hatred over their political and social views, so it could be construed as a hate crime.... except I don't believe in "hate crimes legislation". Crime is crime. Charge the shooter with attempted murder and be done with it.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It was apparently motivated by hatred over their political and social views, so it could be construed as a hate crime.... except I don't believe in "hate crimes legislation". Crime is crime. Charge the shooter with attempted murder and be done with it.
    I agree...hate laws charge individuals for their intent...when they have the crime theyve already committed in front of them

  4. #154
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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It was apparently motivated by hatred over their political and social views, so it could be construed as a hate crime.... except I don't believe in "hate crimes legislation". Crime is crime. Charge the shooter with attempted murder and be done with it.

    To simply apply a basic reasoning to a charge is to ignore who the FRC are and why the shooter was there in the first place. It must be investigated and charged if this was indeed a hate crime, as a hate crime carries a stiffer sentence and the FNC falls within that class which that crime laws are deemed to protect.

    The "Family Research Council (FRC) has advanced faith, family and freedom in public policy and the culture from a Christian worldview. The shooter told the guard, "I don't like your politics" before firing the shot."

    The problem is FNC "politics" is directly related to their religious beliefs. In fact, "FRC's team of seasoned experts promotes these core values through policy research, public education on Capitol Hill and in the media, and grassroots mobilization. We review legislation, meet with policymakers, publish books and pamphlets, build coalitions, testify before Congress, and maintain a powerful presence online and in the print and broadcast media. Through our outreach to pastors, we equip churches to transform the culture."

    The FRC "politics" are inextricably intertwined with their "Christian" religious views and values this is what motivated the shooter and why he sought out this group as a target.

    About FRC

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    To simply apply a basic reasoning to a charge is to ignore who the FRC are and why the shooter was there in the first place. It must be investigated and charged if this was indeed a hate crime, as a hate crime carries a stiffer sentence and the FNC falls within that class which that crime laws are deemed to protect.

    The "Family Research Council (FRC) has advanced faith, family and freedom in public policy and the culture from a Christian worldview. The shooter told the guard, "I don't like your politics" before firing the shot."

    The problem is FNC "politics" is directly related to their religious beliefs. In fact, "FRC's team of seasoned experts promotes these core values through policy research, public education on Capitol Hill and in the media, and grassroots mobilization. We review legislation, meet with policymakers, publish books and pamphlets, build coalitions, testify before Congress, and maintain a powerful presence online and in the print and broadcast media. Through our outreach to pastors, we equip churches to transform the culture."

    The FRC "politics" are inextricably intertwined with their "Christian" religious views and values this is what motivated the shooter and why he sought out this group as a target.

    About FRC
    As I said, it could be construed as a hate crime.

    However, I don't believe in hate crimes legislation. For one I think it violates the "equal protection" clause, creating "special protected groups" and extra punishment for targeting them.

    Most crimes are motivated by either hate or greed. It is reasonably safe to say that almost all cases of murder or attempted murder are motivated by hate in some fashion. Punish the crime, not the "thought".

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    As I said, it could be construed as a hate crime.

    However, I don't believe in hate crimes legislation. For one I think it violates the "equal protection" clause, creating "special protected groups" and extra punishment for targeting them.

    Most crimes are motivated by either hate or greed. It is reasonably safe to say that almost all cases of murder or attempted murder are motivated by hate in some fashion. Punish the crime, not the "thought".
    There is a difference between "crimes are motivated by either hate or greed" which, according to your inference, are crimes regarding society in general and crimes against groups motivated by hatred of their religion, sex, race etc etc. A thought can never be punished, but an act which manifests that thought and results in a crime should be punished in that special classification of "Hate Crime". The whole idea a "thought" is punishable as a crime is an obfuscation of what a hate crime is.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Crime is crime.
    If that were true then there wouldn't be different degrees of murder.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    If that were true then there wouldn't be different degrees of murder.

    Totally missing the point.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Totally missing the point.
    Not even a little bit.

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    Re: Is the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime?

    One of the differences between a hate crime and, say, a crime of passion is that the former targets an entire community as well as being random in nature. Crimes of passion are dependent upon an established relationship between the perp and victim, whereas hate crimes are not. As such, the decisions any individual makes will determine the liklihood of their being a victim of a crime of passion , but not a hate crime.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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