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Thread: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

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    Re: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    What happened?
    Late 2007-2009 happened.


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    Re: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

    Banks Ranked by Total Deposits as of 2007-12-31

    The above is the list of banks and their deposits ranked.. as of 31. Dec. 2007.

    On the list, there are some names that have no links.. that is because they do not exist any more. They have been "bought" by others and gone bankrupt.

    Now Wachovia was taken over (at gun point) by Wells Fargo and Washington Mutal was taken over by JP.Morgan (also at gun point). BOA merged with Myrill.. also at gun point at the time.

    At the time that was over 600 billion in deposits. Now we now know that at the time BOA and Citi were also in serious trouble. BOA had eaten Myrill Lynch (with all their toxic assets) and Citi had been heavily lending to consumers for years (god I hated their constant snail mail telling me I could get cheap loans).

    So of the top 5 US banks by deposit, all but one were in serious trouble at the end of 2007. Even JP Morgan was in problems because it could not get liquidity as easy as it once could.

    Now had all these banks gone belly up, as many on the right were advocating at the time.. who would have bought them? Very few had the funds to do so in the US, and letting non-American banks take over US banks would have been political suicide. The Chinese could have bought out BOA no problem.. as could some other European and Asian banks .. at the time, but politically and legally it is a non starter. So let them go bankrupt says most right wingers.. but would the FDIC have the 2.2 trillion dollars to pay all the depositors? Nope. So you would overnight take 2.2 trillion dollars, peoples life savings, out of the economy... and dont tell me that wont effect the economy.

    Now it is of course even worse today

    Banks Ranked by Total Deposits

    Here BOA, CITI, JP Morgan and Wells Fargo have over 3.5 trillion dollars of deposits, out of a total deposit of an estimated 6 trillion. Fact is the FDIC does not have the money to guarantee the deposits and is basing that guarantee on one thing... the US fed.

    Basically.. break up the top 4 US banks. They are even more "too big to fail".
    PeteEU

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    Re: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    The government swooped in and helped the capitalists because it determined that they needed to be saved for the "greater good". Thats what comes from running government without regard to outcomes and unintended consequences.

    FYI---this is the only time the extreme left and extreme right were in agreement AGAINST the bailouts. Odd that, all the establishment peckerheads on both sides wanted it.
    So you should be for the GM bailout, right? For the greater good.
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    Re: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Nope... it becomes corporatism, since government is owned by private business.

    Of course you can. Capitalism is flawed, because it has no checks and balances in the real world.
    Yes it most certainly does. Defend your position that it does not. Capitalism is self-regulation.

    The only place capitalism probably fails to self-regulate is environmentally. It is possible for capitalism to lead to tragedies of the commons that don't self-correct very quickly or peacefully. But then again I'm not sure any other economic model is terribly concerned with the environmental impacts of our pro-growth policies.

    Problem is when capitalism buys the bureaucrats and hence the government, then you end up with capitalism's worst traits.
    Not really. You end up with an quasi-socialist oligarchy that learns how to disguise itself as a capitalist republic. Capitalism may bring about ****ty scenarios now and then, but that is a very necessary aspect of the self-regulatory nature of capitalism. When government step in and interfere, they're destroying that self-regulatory mechanism and turning the system into something other than a free market.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 08-14-12 at 05:04 PM.

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    Re: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Yes it most certainly does. Defend your position that it does not. Capitalism is self-regulation.

    The only place capitalism probably fails to self-regulate is environmentally. It is possible for capitalism to lead to tragedies of the commons that don't self-correct very quickly or peacefully. But then again I'm not sure any other economic model is terribly concerned with the environmental impacts of our pro-growth policies.



    Not really. You end up with an quasi-socialist oligarchy that learns how to disguise itself as a capitalist republic. Capitalism may bring about ****ty scenarios now and then, but that is a very necessary aspect of the self-regulatory nature of capitalism. When government step in and interfere, they're destroying that self-regulatory mechanism and turning the system into something other than a free market.
    Excellent post - imo.

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    Re: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by tigger View Post
    then you let it fail. The largest issue in this country right now is people not being required to deal with the consequences of their own actions, thoughts, words, and deeds.
    Exactly!!!

    Wimps have taken over...nobody seems to want to take responsibility for their mistakes anymore...just let the government/Fed smooth over everything with debt.

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    Re: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Lets look at the facts.

    We had one major "bank" go down and it caused a total credit freeze world wide. [
    That is not a fact. That is your belief. Sure, the world paniced for a few days. Big deal. They panic every few years. They take a deep breath. realize the sky is not falling and get on with business. Like Black Monday in 1987. You think they did not panic then? Sure they did. And what happened? Everyone calmed down and went on with life.
    Now please prove to me using ONLY links to unbiased sources that there would have been a 'total credit freeze world wide'.

    You do realize that the people claiming this the loudest are ALL people that have a vested interest in it?

    Banks. Corrupt politicians that are lobbied by the banks. And 'economists' whose income depends on going on CNBC/writing books/managing accounts and peddling the Keynesian/big government economic model.

    Please show me a link to unbiased facts - not opinions - facts, that back up what you and SO many people have said since '08...but have never shown (to my knowledge) one OUNCE of factual evidence to back it up...that the economic sky was falling and we were all 'saved' by government/Fed bailouts?

    By forcing supposedly healthy banks with bail-out money, they stated that those banks all were backed by the government and were safe.
    You apparently missed my point. How could the banks have been close to collapse if they refused TARP money and had to be forced to take it by Paulson?

    What CEO would not take a government handout if it would save his/her company?

    Come on now.



    TARP was not perfect but it was needed. The banking and financial industry can not collapse as a whole period.. it would be beyond catastrophic,
    I will ask you one simple question?

    Would the major banks - in your opinion - have failed without TARP?
    Last edited by DA60; 08-14-12 at 05:38 PM.

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    Re: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by John.NoseTip View Post
    I tend to agree with you but there's very little chance we will ever know the complete truth because it would require subpeona powers and motivated investigators which isn't going to happen. If you read the "Shock Doctorine" ,which came out the year before the so called banking crisis, it outlines how other governments have been screwed over be it Russia, Poland or somewhere else and what happened in 2008 was very similar. That doesn't mean they're guilty but I would encourage everyone to read it because it will provide some perspective on things. If nothing else the reader will learn that Rahm didn't invent the concept of "never waste a crisis" in fact it's much more a tool of the Friedmanites.
    I agree.

    But since there is no absolute factual proof one way or the other - then my problem is with people that say the sky WOULD have (as a matter of fact) fallen without the government/Fed riding to the rescue.

    If they want to say they BELIEVE it would have? Fine - they are entitled to their opinion.

    But to run around - especially 'experts' - telling the ignorant masses that all heck would have broken loose were it not for big brother government is simply a fabrication.

    They do not know - they only believe.

    And they should say it as such and stop being dishonest.

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    Re: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Late 2007-2009 happened.
    What would Glass-Stegall done to prevent the collapse?
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    Re: U.S. 'Pretty ****ed' - Former TARP Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    What would Glass-Stegall done to prevent the collapse?
    It would have kept a good number of people with poor credit ratings from buying houses that they could not afford, and it would have kept banks and lending institutions somewhat controlled wrt whom they were loaning money to. That being said, the CRA should never have been strengthened either, as it was a huge risk to be loaning money, based on social factors, and not creditworthiness.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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