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Thread: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Agreed, people will be people. But the purchasing public imposes fiscal discipline on competitive private enterprises, where government does not.
    No. We get to vote about public enterprises. In addition there are private enterprises that are too big to allow to fail because their failure would take down 'innocent' enterprises. Then the leadership of "competitive private enterprise" is seldom punished when the enterprise fails, in fact they often effectively rob the enterprise as it fails.

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Wow, I like this Paul Ryan guy already, and I've never heard of him until this morning. Why is he not the Presidential candidate instead of Romney?
    Exactly.

    Ryan should be on the top of the ticket, and Romney shouldn't even be on the ticket at all.

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Exactly.

    Ryan should be on the top of the ticket, and Romney shouldn't even be on the ticket at all.
    You can always exercise your right as an American citizen and write him in if you really believe that.
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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    No. We get to vote about public enterprises.
    Eventually, perhaps, as in Wisconsin recently. The taxpayers of California are still working on it, and it's difficult when so many of the legislators are sock puppets of the public employee unions. My point was that locally owned fast food franchises, pharmacies, grocery stores, gas stations, and the like are subject to competitive pressures that don't exist for government monopolies.

    In addition there are private enterprises that are too big to allow to fail because their failure would take down 'innocent' enterprises. Then the leadership of "competitive private enterprise" is seldom punished when the enterprise fails, in fact they often effectively rob the enterprise as it fails.
    That is true, particularly of those enterprises which are granted monopolies or favored treatment by the government. We can control it better on the local level - think electric and gas rates - and wireless has done a lot to break the past monopolies on telephones while satellites have done a lot to break the cable and broadcast monopolies. But as the controlling government entity gets more remote, like on the federal level, it becomes extremely difficult to control. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are prime examples of private enterprise that is more accurately described as crony capitalism where, as you note, the main criminals are more likely to receive golden parachutes than the punishment they so richly deserve. The disaster of the Obama "stimulus" has shown us dozens more examples of nominally "private" enterprise that have been bailed out by taxpayers and rewarded for their political connections rather than their contribution to the economy.
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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    and wireless has done a lot to break the past monopolies on telephones
    No, the government breakup of AT&T did that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    while satellites have done a lot to break the cable and broadcast monopolies.
    No, they haven't -- since if you'll compare rates, you'll see that both are comparable (and exhorbitant).

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    The disaster of the Obama "stimulus" has shown us dozens more examples of nominally "private" enterprise that have been bailed out by taxpayers and rewarded for their political connections rather than their contribution to the economy.
    You're mistaking Obama's Stimulus for Bush's TARP.

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You can always exercise your right as an American citizen and write him in if you really believe that.
    Actually, in just about every election, I vote for myself in every race. I figure that the people running, like Barack Obama and Mitt Romney for example, are voting for themselves, so I vote for myself. I think that every American should vote for themself.

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    ... My point was that locally owned fast food franchises, pharmacies, grocery stores, gas stations, and the like are subject to competitive pressures that don't exist for government monopolies.
    Please count the "locally owned fast food franchises, pharmacies, grocery stores, gas stations, and the like" compared to the ones owned by large corporations. You'll find that the locally owned ones are a small percentage and don't count. btw, we make a point of going to several places to eat that are locally owned.


    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    ... The disaster of the Obama "stimulus" has shown us dozens more examples of nominally "private" enterprise that have been bailed out by taxpayers and rewarded for their political connections rather than their contribution to the economy.
    Please list a few. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were allowed set themselves up, in the way that allowed them to screw things up, under whose presidency?
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 08-12-12 at 02:38 PM.

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    No, the government breakup of AT&T did that.
    Sorry, but each Baby Bell had a lock on it's area. It was the introduction of wireless that gave me a choice of carriers.

    No, they haven't -- since if you'll compare rates, you'll see that both are comparable (and exhorbitant).
    They are competing with each other, and the value received is a helluva lot more than I used to get watching Howdy Doody in black and white when we visited my uncle.

    You're mistaking Obama's Stimulus for Bush's TARP.
    Look again. Bush didn't throw money at Solyndra, Fisker, et al.
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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Please count the "locally owned fast food franchises, pharmacies, grocery stores, gas stations, and the like" compared to the ones owned by large corporations. You'll find that the locally owned ones are a small percentage and don't count. btw, we make a point of going to several places to eat that are locally owned.
    If you inquire past the billboard sign as to who actually owns the local franchise, I think you will be surprised. The big company may own the name, but a local company usually owns the franchise.

    Please list a few. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were allowed set themselves up, in the way that allowed them to screw things up, under whose presidency?
    The real screw-ups came during the Clinton years, when loyalists who had defended him were rewarded with plum positions where they could make millions for themselves. Bush43 tried to clean it up, but got sidetracked by 9/11 and obstructed by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, who also managed to make things a helluva lot worse with their sorry bill before they escaped from Congress.
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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Sorry, but each Baby Bell had a lock on it's area. It was the introduction of wireless that gave me a choice of carriers.
    In reality, the introduction of wireless gave you the choice of one of two wireless carriers, but I digress (yes, it is more than that now). The introduction of wireless did not reduce your telephone bill, which is generally the capitalist goal of competition.

    Now, the government breakup of AT&T did reduce your long distance phone bill, since it forced AT&T to give up monopoly control of those lines and offer them to third party resellers. Since the prior monopoly control had allowed AT&T to keep long distance charges high, and use those excess profits to subsidize basic (local) phone service, the long distance rates went down while the local rates went up. Result: long distance charges are perhaps 10% of what they were 40 years ago, while local service cost about 90% more.

    You pay, you decide... but if you're confusing choice with competition, you're making a fundamental error.

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