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Thread: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

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    Wow, I like this Paul Ryan guy already, and I've never heard of him until this morning. Why is he not the Presidential candidate instead of Romney?

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Once again, its not appropriate to use the term lay off when it comes to cuts in the federal workforce. There would not be a dramatic loss of jobs. These people are quitting or retiring not being fired. I do not endorse the complete cutting of major departments but it is a fact that waste is much worse in the public sector than the private sector. I just point out the GSA because it was the latest waste scandal. Who knows how many smaller examples of that we have in every department within the government. When you are using other peoples money why wouldn't you spread it around either to help out your buddies?

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by cbaber View Post
    Once again, its not appropriate to use the term lay off when it comes to cuts in the federal workforce. There would not be a dramatic loss of jobs. These people are quitting or retiring not being fired.
    There would be a dramatic loss of jobs and, yes, it would affect the economy to some small extent.

    I understand no one would be fired. In all honesty, attrition is just a cheap way to reduce the workforce - but the workforce will still be reduced by 10%, which I call a dramatic cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by cbaber View Post
    I do not endorse the complete cutting of major departments but it is a fact that waste is much worse in the public sector than the private sector.
    That's a nonsense comparison from the get-go. How can there be "waste" in the private sector at all - except that which the CEO decides is no longer useful?

    And you specifically stated,
    "It is about time we stopped with all these useless agencies and downsized because we cant afford the non essentials."
    That seems like you are endorsing cutting agencies and you still don't deny that. So, which agencies are we cutting? Which are useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by cbaber View Post
    I just point out the GSA because it was the latest waste scandal. Who knows how many smaller examples of that we have in every department within the government. When you are using other peoples money why wouldn't you spread it around either to help out your buddies?
    Are there occasional idiots that make mistakes? Of course! They're people so it's bound to happen. Can we stop all of it? No way in hell, they're people and they will make mistakes. It's appropriate in the right place to take about these things, and certainly worthwhile for the press to bring them up because government employees should have it pounded into them that it's wrong to do this, but it does us no good in a discussion of government spending. People will make mistakes, even Mother Teresa.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 08-11-12 at 07:16 PM.
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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That's a nonsense comparison from the get-go. How can there be "waste" in the private sector at all - except that which the CEO decides is no longer useful?
    .
    I'll try to answer this one. My son works for a large utility company. He's decently paid and has good benefits. Each time they lose an employee, they just add the workload to him. Nobody has had a raise in 5 years.

    They just hired the 48th $2 million a year VP. This one is the VP of the VP of the VP of, trumpets please, AWARDS.

    I suspect this is not unique to private industry.

    Govt. workers have always been empire builders.

    Not taking a side. Just adding from my knowledge...

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I'll try to answer this one. My son works for a large utility company. He's decently paid and has good benefits. Each time they lose an employee, they just add the workload to him. Nobody has had a raise in 5 years.

    They just hired the 48th $2 million a year VP. This one is the VP of the VP of the VP of, trumpets please, AWARDS.

    I suspect this is not unique to private industry.

    Govt. workers have always been empire builders.

    Not taking a side. Just adding from my knowledge...
    I didn't say there weren't stupid things happening in private industry. I've been around too long to make that mistake. But someone "upstairs", the CEO or one of his close minions, made a decision to move forward in that manner.

    Yes, I know government groups tend to build empires. It's the nature of their funding beast that does it. The system of funding in bureaucracies could use a 21st century update. Sadly, that takes more public awareness of how governments work and, as I see more and more each day, that simply will not happen anytime soon.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 08-11-12 at 08:18 PM.
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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    It all seems loopy and out of control to me.

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Agreed. I was a federal employee until I retired a few years ago, but I came aboard too late to get into the CSRS system. The experience left me with an abiding appreciation of Dilbert cartoons, and we would often wonder which of our coworkers was the Dilbert spy in our office. Most of my coworkers were conscientious and hard working, and that was even true of some of the managers. But the problem on the managerial level was that the only way to get a promotion was to have more people working for you, so there was never a shortage of harebrained schemes which would require a larger staff. And when a manager did prove to be incompetent, it was almost impossible to fire him/her so the result was generally a "turkey farm" where the incompetents were assigned to unnecessary tasks where they couldn't do any damage.

    I completely agree that there are too many government workers - I remember the Ross Perot joke from twenty years ago about the USDA employee weeping at his desk because "his farmer had died" - and I agree that attrition is probably the most achievable way to cut back (with the possible exception of recent hires in the IRS for ObamaCare, or TSA agents where the task is privatized).
    I worked for a large corporation where it seemed that Dilbert worked. It matches your experience, but it was a private company listed on the NYSE. My experience is that people behave like people no matter where they are working.

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm a federal employee.

    I'm in favor of the money we have to put to our retirement pension being increased. I also think it absolutely should be high five instead of high three. Frankly, when discovering/rediscovering the notion that I get a pension towards the end of a process of my wife and I attempting to figure out what we needed to do with regards to our actual retirement plans (TSP/401K), I was flabbergasted.

    I'm in favor of the freeze, but believe that it should be extended to congress as well. I find it utter and completely bull**** that Congress is telling the average federal employee they need to sacrifice in this regards and yet Paul Ryan has no issues with him and his boys getting money. It's an issue I have with all of congress right now with this. However, beyond that...I don't have a huge issue with this as long as it ends after 2015. There goes a point where it goes from asking Federal Employees to take a bit of hardship to simply using them as scape goats. The "raises" this is typically talking about are relatively slight increases each year due to inflation, general cost of living increases, etc.

    I'm in favor of cutting with attrition. The notion that it's going to hit DHS or the Defense Department the hardest doesn't bother me. Actually, it is actually something that runs counter to the notion we keep hearing that the Republicans won't cut defense spending of various types. Though sadly I think this attrition may end up hitting the lower end more than the higher end in some places where you probably need that attrition happening on higher level jobs. Still, the federal work force has been growing and growing, and some scale back is probably useful. More than that, if we can potentially eliminate the necessity for some government employees...by for instance massively simplifying the tax code requiring far less IRS agents...then we could hit that 10% in perhaps an easier means.

    As a federal employee, I've got no issue with this plan on the surface.
    Under the Paul Ryan plan, you'd feel the pain many state public employees like myself have been feeling now for the past 4-5 years! No raise since (at least) 2008, a 15% increase in our health insurance premiums, a 30% increase in contributions to our retirement plans. Meanwhile, our state legislators found it totally justifiable to vote themselves a fat pay raise not once but TWICE since 2006.

    Just as public employees were once the target of Conservative budget cuts, it will be federal employee's turn under the Paul Ryan plan. Are you ready for it? Because that's what you'll have to endure if Team Romney/Ryan wins the White House.

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I worked for a large corporation where it seemed that Dilbert worked. It matches your experience, but it was a private company listed on the NYSE. My experience is that people behave like people no matter where they are working.
    Agreed, people will be people. But the purchasing public imposes fiscal discipline on competitive private enterprises, where government does not.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Re: Paul Ryans Budget Plan Hits Federal Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Under the Paul Ryan plan, you'd feel the pain many state public employees like myself have been feeling now for the past 4-5 years! No raise since (at least) 2008, a 15% increase in our health insurance premiums, a 30% increase in contributions to our retirement plans. Meanwhile, our state legislators found it totally justifiable to vote themselves a fat pay raise not once but TWICE since 2006.

    Just as public employees were once the target of Conservative budget cuts, it will be federal employee's turn under the Paul Ryan plan. Are you ready for it? Because that's what you'll have to endure if Team Romney/Ryan wins the White House.
    The federal government is running a $1,300,000,000,000 deficit each year. Where do you suggest the cuts come from? There really isnt a way to reduce that level of debt without literally millions of Americans feeling the pinch.

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