• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Funera

Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

TheDemSocialist said:
"Reasonable restrictions" on the freedom of speech? Then it ends to be free. It then becomes "semi-restricted free speech"....
Click to expand...

It's not new, and we still have free speech. Tell me I can't protest a policitican, and I'm with you. Tell me I can't state an opinion and make an argument, adn I'm with you again. Tell me you want the right to harass familes as they bury their loved ones, and no, I'm not with you at all.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
It's not new, and we still have free speech. Tell me I can't protest a policitican, and I'm with you. Tell me I can't state an opinion and make an argument, adn I'm with you again. Tell me you want the right to harass familes as they bury their loved ones, and no, I'm not with you at all.
Click to expand...

You cannot protest the politician, you may stand in your caged in "free speech" zone and yell, miles away from any politician. You cannot state an opinion and make an argument the establishment does not like, they even prearrest people these days for that crap.

There are real efforts to destroy the right to free speech, helping them do so isn't going to land us anywhere better.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
All rights have the one natural limitation that you may not infringe upon the rights of others in the process. All "reasonable" restrictions come along this line. And yet, no right here has been violated. And so long as that is true, we cannot justly use government force to stop WBC just because we do not like what they are saying.
Click to expand...

Again, I believe they do infringe on some elses rights. A right that only the most vile would violate.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
Again, I believe they do infringe on some elses rights. A right that only the most vile would violate.
Click to expand...

But they didn't. What you claim is a right is not a right. Not when on public property, which is where all this is happening. You do not have command over vibrations in the air.

BTW, I really hate this new quote notification thing.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
It's not new, and we still have free speech.
Click to expand...
No we have "restricted free-speech" that is only appropriate allowed free speech if the gov says it ok.

Tell me I can't protest a policitican, and I'm with you. Tell me I can't state an opinion and make an argument, adn I'm with you again. Tell me you want the right to harass familes as they bury their loved ones, and no, I'm not with you at all.
Click to expand...

Sure but you dont have the freedom of assembly. Which is part of freedom of speech. Free speech zone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4jguf.jpg
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
You cannot protest the politician, you may stand in your caged in "free speech" zone and yell, miles away from any politician. You cannot state an opinion and make an argument the establishment does not like, they even prearrest people these days for that crap.

There are real efforts to destroy the right to free speech, helping them do so isn't going to land us anywhere better.
Click to expand...

I would stand with you against such zones. I think we learn a lot about a politiican in how he handles those who want to protest. And anyone stopping me from making an argument would have me protesting that as well. There is work there to be done. Not with WBC.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

TheDemSocialist said:
No we have "restricted free-speech" that is only appropriate allowed free speech if the gov says it ok.



Sure but you dont have the freedom of assembly. Which is part of freedom of speech. Free speech zone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4jguf.jpg
Click to expand...

And I oppose those. From day one. But not WBC's right to harrass grieving family memebers.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
And I oppose those. From day one. But not WBC's right to harrass grieving family memebers.
Click to expand...

Harass it or not they a protesting and using their right to freedom of speech to protest an event on public property. Which is completely legal, just as its legal for Nazis to march through a town "harassing" (call it what you want) a certain amount of individuals. They both have the right to do so.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
I would stand with you against such zones. I think we learn a lot about a politiican in how he handles those who want to protest. And anyone stopping me from making an argument would have me protesting that as well. There is work there to be done. Not with WBC.
Click to expand...

You gotta take it all if your end goal is freedom. I love WBC protesting, there I said it. I love their protesting because even though it's retarded so long as they can do it, it means that they CAN do it. So long as there is the choice, there is the freedom. So long as there is the freedom, there is liberty. I aim to maximize liberty and freedom, not curtail it just because some humans choose to be dicks. Those assholes are already why anarchy cannot work, and that's just about enough compromise in my book.

Freedom has consequences and responsibilities and duties and if we do not shoulder it all, then we shoulder none. For if we allow our freedom to be eroded by power of State, we will soon find ourselves slaves on the land our forefathers conquered.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
You gotta take it all if your end goal is freedom. I love WBC protesting, there I said it. I love their protesting because even though it's retarded so long as they can do it, it means that they CAN do it. So long as there is the choice, there is the freedom. So long as there is the freedom, there is liberty. I aim to maximize liberty and freedom, not curtail it just because some humans choose to be dicks. Those assholes are already why anarchy cannot work, and that's just about enough compromise in my book.

Freedom has consequences and responsibilities and duties and if we do not shoulder it all, then we shoulder none. For if we allow our freedom to be eroded by power of State, we will soon find ourselves slaves on the land our forefathers conquered.
Click to expand...

I don't buy that. Being a dick isn't the problem. Be one all you want. I'll defend that as well. Bothering grieving people, no I won't defend that.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
I don't buy that. Being a dick isn't the problem. Be one all you want. I'll defend that as well. Bothering grieving people, no I won't defend that.
Click to expand...

Hmm....you seem to be contradicting yourself here. You certainly ain't defending them being dicks.

You ain't got a right to not be bothered. By mere fact that you live in a world with more than you in it, you're gonna be bothered.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
Hmm....you seem to be contradicting yourself here. You certainly ain't defending them being dicks.

You ain't got a right to not be bothered. By mere fact that you live in a world with more than you in it, you're gonna be bothered.
Click to expand...

I quite disagree. Anywhere they want to be dicks away from the grieving, find. Come to my office, yell all you want. I have a park across the street from my house, feel free. Stay away from families grieving.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Westboro Baptist Church is correct: America is evil.

America is evil for tolerating evil. A righteous America wouldn't have put up with one funeral protest, and they would have been shot a long long time ago.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
I quite disagree. Anywhere they want to be dicks away from the grieving, find. Come to my office, yell all you want. I have a park across the street from my house, feel free. Stay away from families grieving.
Click to expand...

That's just not a condition on our rights though. Public space is public. People have the right to assemble, associate, and protest. So long as they are on public land, they are free to do as they like. You have no reasonable expectation to total control of sound.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Matt Foley said:
Westboro Baptist Church is correct: America is evil.

America is evil for tolerating evil. A righteous America wouldn't have put up with one funeral protest, and they would have been shot a long long time ago.
Click to expand...

I cannot disagree with this insanity more.

America is for freedom, even the freedom of these protesting morons. Shooting protesters is NOT righteous, its draconian, murder and evil.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
That's just not a condition on our rights though. Public space is public. People have the right to assemble, associate, and protest. So long as they are on public land, they are free to do as they like. You have no reasonable expectation to total control of sound.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of things you can't do in public space. As I said, rights are not absolute.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
There are a lot of things you can't do in public space. As I said, rights are not absolute.
Click to expand...

I disagree, I believe rights are what we make them.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
There are a lot of things you can't do in public space. As I said, rights are not absolute.
Click to expand...

All rights are not absolute, you may not infringe upon the rights of others in the exercise of your own rights. I do not see that to be the case here. You have no dominion over sound or any reasonable expectation to such.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
All rights are not absolute, you may not infringe upon the rights of others in the exercise of your own rights. I do not see that to be the case here. You have no dominion over sound or any reasonable expectation to such.
Click to expand...

But I do. I believe I have the right to bury my loved one without being harassed. We're not talking about sound, we're talking abuse harassment.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Lachean said:
I disagree, I believe rights are what we make them.
Click to expand...

Which doesn't mean they are absolute.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
But I do. I believe I have the right to bury my loved one without being harassed. We're not talking about sound, we're talking abuse harassment.
Click to expand...

You are talking about sound, you're talking about people standing outside in public having peacefully assembled to protest and the noise they make "harassing" individual's at a funeral. They aren't on private land, they aren't in the church, so it's the sound that you find offensive.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
Which doesn't mean they are absolute.
Click to expand...

But there are certainly limits to the limits.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
But there are certainly limits to the limits.
Click to expand...

Sure. Start with your free speech zones. Too far IMHO. Any time the government punishes anyone for critcizing them. And other such abuses. But not here. Not abusing grieving family members. Not sound, but abusive language.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Boo Radley said:
Sure. Start with your free speech zones. Too far IMHO. Any time the government punishes anyone for critcizing them. And other such abuses. But not here. Not abusing grieving family members. Not sound, but abusive language.
Click to expand...

What is "abusive language" if not compression of the air interpreted by our brains? The fact of the matter is that they are not abusing anyone, they are in public and assembling and protesting and so long as that remains true, they MUST be allowed to continue doing so. This is a consequence of freedom, you either accept it or choose "not freedom".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom