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Thread: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Funera

  1. #191
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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell View Post
    I am just going to say, our constitution says freedom of speech. Yeah, you can say whatever you want, but there will be consequences. A example, I shout "NOMB" in a crowed airport, should I be arrested? Yes. I can argue that it is unconstitutional that if found convicted it would be destroying the first admendment. So, is it unconstitutional? No, when you say something, be ready to accept the consequences. I support this bill.

    Everyone wants free speech when they want to say something...and then in turn wants everyone else to STFU that does say what they agree with...

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Everyone wants free speech when they want to say something...and then in turn wants everyone else to STFU that does say what they agree with...
    That is true.
    "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend."-Richard Jeni

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, we're talking about an out cry form the public, those who have had to suffer.
    And what are they saying? "Please government! Please come in here and save me from that guy practicing his rights over there!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We're not talking about a politiican protecting himself (the government). And you can have emotion and be perfectly rational. No matter where you stand, when your words interfer with my grief, you're crossed the line (hitting my nose so to speak).
    Your nose is not getting hit, you're just getting worked up over words and freedom. I can understand WHY you would push for a bill like this, I think it's very understandable. But this is government force we're talking about, force used against the free exercise of rights and in that light, we have to be careful with what we're using it for. Not only that, it can only justly be elicited if we demonstrate that through their actions they had been infringing upon the rights of others. That's where restrictions such as yelling fire in a crowded theater come from. In this case, there are no rights being infringed upon. You made one up and claim it to be violated, but the right to grieve in peace isn't a right as "peace" is very much dependent upon location. In public, where the WBC folk are at, you do not have the right to grieve in peace, you do not have reasonable expectation to that privacy.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #194
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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell View Post
    I am just going to say, our constitution says freedom of speech. Yeah, you can say whatever you want, but there will be consequences. A example, I shout "NOMB" in a crowed airport, should I be arrested? Yes. I can argue that it is unconstitutional that if found convicted it would be destroying the first admendment. So, is it unconstitutional? No, when you say something, be ready to accept the consequences. I support this bill.
    Well if you shout bomb in a crowded airport you can cause a panic which can threaten the well being of those there. Furthermore, given that we're on "alert" for terrorism, it will surely call response from the agents there. But there is a difference yelling fire or bomb in crowded places (which cause panic and lead to people becoming injured) without a threat and a group of people peacefully assembled on public land protesting. I'd hope that the difference was obvious.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well if you shout bomb in a crowded airport you can cause a panic which can threaten the well being of those there. Furthermore, given that we're on "alert" for terrorism, it will surely call response from the agents there. But there is a difference yelling fire or bomb in crowded places (which cause panic and lead to people becoming injured) without a threat and a group of people peacefully assembled on public land protesting. I'd hope that the difference was obvious.
    When I was talking about shouting "Bomb" in an airport, I was making a refrence to this thread, I guess it wasn't that obvious next time I will know. I was comparing the two, if I shout "Bomb," in a crowed airport, people with get hurt. If I have a anti-gay protest at an openly-gay marine's funeral or anything, people wil get hurt. I don't know about you, but people get real emotional about these things. Should I get arrested for shouting, "Bomb?" Yes. Should I get arrested for protesting a soldiers funeral? Yes. Still freedom of speech.
    Last edited by Darrell; 08-16-12 at 10:04 AM.
    "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend."-Richard Jeni

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell View Post
    If I have a anti-gay protest at an openly-gay marine's funeral or anything, people wil get hurt. I don't know about you, but people get real emotional about these things. Should I get arrested for shouting, "Bomb?" Yes. Should I get arrested for protesting a soldiers funeral? Yes. Still freedom of speech.
    The difference is reasonable response. If you're in a crowded place and people start shouting fire such that you think there is a real fire, it is reasonable and expected that one may panic as fire would be a threat to life and limb. If someone is running their mouth, you assaulting them is NOT reasonable response. You have more than ample opportunity to not assault them and they themselves would not be putting your life at risk or assaulting you. See the difference? This too is actually well obvious; while it may be reasonable to panic if your life is in danger, it is not reasonable to assault another human because they are running their mouths.

    As such, you should not be arrested for protesting a soldier's funeral. BTW, another obvious thing you missed, it isn't "still freedom of speech". When you are using government force to prevent the free exercise of a right, it is no longer free. Ergo if you use the government to prevent someone from exercising freedom of speech, it is no longer freedom of speech.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And what are they saying? "Please government! Please come in here and save me from that guy practicing his rights over there!"



    Your nose is not getting hit, you're just getting worked up over words and freedom. I can understand WHY you would push for a bill like this, I think it's very understandable. But this is government force we're talking about, force used against the free exercise of rights and in that light, we have to be careful with what we're using it for. Not only that, it can only justly be elicited if we demonstrate that through their actions they had been infringing upon the rights of others. That's where restrictions such as yelling fire in a crowded theater come from. In this case, there are no rights being infringed upon. You made one up and claim it to be violated, but the right to grieve in peace isn't a right as "peace" is very much dependent upon location. In public, where the WBC folk are at, you do not have the right to grieve in peace, you do not have reasonable expectation to that privacy.
    I suppose I or someone else could shoot them, but I don't think that's the preferred answer. Government having laws that protect my privacy to grieve is OK with me.

    No, words have power. And a funeral is not the place for protests. Not for a private citizen. It is my right to grieve in peace. I'm sorry you don't see it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Ok, now this is one issue that "EVERYONE" should say Thank You Mr President....


    President Barack Obama signed the Honoring America’s Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012 into law on Monday, providing a wide-ranging package of benefits to military personnel and enacting new restrictions on protests of service member funerals.

    "We have a moral sacred duty to our men and women in uniform," Obama said before signing the bill, according to a pool report. "The graves of our veterans are hallowed grounds."


    Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Funeral Protests
    US vets no longer fight for freedom and country. They fight for the government instead.

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    US vets no longer fight for freedom and country. They fight for the government instead.
    Everyone has their own opinons....many believe they only fight so rich americans can get richer...who knows...all I do know is that the troops are fighting for their country...who and why they are sent is not their issue....they go and do their job and lay their lives on the line...for all us..

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I suppose I or someone else could shoot them, but I don't think that's the preferred answer.
    Of course not. Not only is it not reasonable response, but your life is not threatened by WBC so you have no legal recourse to do so. As such, anyone who tries to shoot them goes to jail.

    It's not that I don't see your "right to grieve in peace", it's that you haven't even supported it through argument. You merely stated it, and then claim that your new invention should trump already established rights, such as protest.

    Freedom has many consequences and responsibilities. I'm sorry you don't see it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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