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Thread: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Funera

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The point is, in all things (espeically law) words matter.
    To an extent, but not very far. If the "words" cause actual damage then yes (such as slander or libel); but beyond that no.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    This is a rather long thread so someone may have already brought this up but the free speech zones ship has sailed. I find it atrocious but if Obama is going to limit speech about him it makes sense he would limit if for his armies as well.

    HR 347 Trespass Bill
    House Vote(399-3)
    Senate Vote(Unanimous Consent)
    Votes Per Govtrack

    If you don't know what this is below is a pretty good summary. Before you go saying that damned Obama look at the votes in congress. Now that's what I call a bipartisan bill a damn shame this is what they both agree on.


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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    To an extent, but not very far. If the "words" cause actual damage then yes (such as slander or libel); but beyond that no.
    No, more than that. If words had no meaning, we need not speak them. Funerals are private and whatever makes in way in, on the wind as you say, is an intrusion. Most we can live with. But an aimed intrusion, meant to do harm, is abuse that hits my nose.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by John.NoseTip View Post
    This is a rather long thread so someone may have already brought this up but the free speech zones ship has sailed. I find it atrocious but if Obama is going to limit speech about him it makes sense he would limit if for his armies as well.

    HR 347 Trespass Bill
    House Vote(399-3)
    Senate Vote(Unanimous Consent)
    Votes Per Govtrack

    If you don't know what this is below is a pretty good summary. Before you go saying that damned Obama look at the votes in congress. Now that's what I call a bipartisan bill a damn shame this is what they both agree on.

    Free Speech zones did not start with Obama, but as the ever so good Republocrat he certainly has been expanding on it.

    And just because they are doing it, doesn't mean we should allow more.

    Also, I really like that Young Turks program, in general I mean, not just this clip.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, more than that. If words had no meaning, we need not speak them. Funerals are private and whatever makes in way in, on the wind as you say, is an intrusion. Most we can live with. But an aimed intrusion, meant to do harm, is abuse that hits my nose.
    Funerals are private, but you cannot then say people in public cannot act certain ways because they are in public. It's like making a law that says "no honking horns!" because some may find it distracting.

    Boo, you haven't defended your ideal of why this is a right, you haven't explained it from base, you haven't demonstrated proper use of government force for a group assembled in public. I fear that you've allowed your emotions to compromise you on this subject.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Free Speech zones did not start with Obama, but as the ever so good Republocrat he certainly has been expanding on it.

    And just because they are doing it, doesn't mean we should allow more.

    Also, I really like that Young Turks program, in general I mean, not just this clip.
    Agreed but I don't see the tide turning anytime soon. Young Turks is a good show. In the end like many party loyalist he goes overboard demonizing the other side sometimes but they cover many issues that the corporate media doesn't especially items like civil liberties and wiki-leaks. He did several clips on NDAA where he absolutely nuked the bill and Obama for signing the bill.

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Funerals are private, but you cannot then say people in public cannot act certain ways because they are in public. It's like making a law that says "no honking horns!" because some may find it distracting.

    Boo, you haven't defended your ideal of why this is a right, you haven't explained it from base, you haven't demonstrated proper use of government force for a group assembled in public. I fear that you've allowed your emotions to compromise you on this subject.
    Actually, I think I can say it. Being over the fence or on the sidewalk doesn't mean they are not in fact interfering, imposing themselves on my private moment. We're not talking about the government, not a politiican, not anyone who has a public face. But private citizens who are grieving. No, I do not believe they have any right to that.

    And while it is an emotional issue (Emotions are nto bad btw), I think there is a fundametal right here, my right to grieve in peace. I think it takes priority over someone's right to be an asshole.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Actually, I think I can say it. Being over the fence or on the sidewalk doesn't mean they are not in fact interfering, imposing themselves on my private moment.
    And that is public property. And they are free to yell all they want out there. Sound travels through air, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We're not talking about the government, not a politiican, not anyone who has a public face. But private citizens who are grieving. No, I do not believe they have any right to that.
    But we ARE talking about government. Who is making the law? Who is enforcing the law? We are talking government force against the free exercise of rights. And there is no demonstratable damage, no infringement of right. They may assemble and protest in public

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And while it is an emotional issue (Emotions are nto bad btw), I think there is a fundametal right here, my right to grieve in peace. I think it takes priority over someone's right to be an asshole.
    Emotions are not bad, perfectly normal human response. However, they do tend to cloud rational thought. And when dealing with eliciting government force against the rights of the People, we must fall to rational thought. To grieve in peace is not necessarily a right as you have no expectation to that privacy in public.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And that is public property. And they are free to yell all they want out there. Sound travels through air, sorry.



    But we ARE talking about government. Who is making the law? Who is enforcing the law? We are talking government force against the free exercise of rights. And there is no demonstratable damage, no infringement of right. They may assemble and protest in public



    Emotions are not bad, perfectly normal human response. However, they do tend to cloud rational thought. And when dealing with eliciting government force against the rights of the People, we must fall to rational thought. To grieve in peace is not necessarily a right as you have no expectation to that privacy in public.
    No, we're talking about an out cry form the public, those who have had to suffer. We're not talking about a politiican protecting himself (the government). And you can have emotion and be perfectly rational. No matter where you stand, when your words interfer with my grief, you're crossed the line (hitting my nose so to speak).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

    I am just going to say, our constitution says freedom of speech. Yeah, you can say whatever you want, but there will be consequences. A example, I shout "NOMB" in a crowed airport, should I be arrested? Yes. I can argue that it is unconstitutional that if found convicted it would be destroying the first admendment. So, is it unconstitutional? No, when you say something, be ready to accept the consequences. I support this bill.
    "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend."-Richard Jeni

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