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Thread: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

  1. #11
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    Re: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

    My wife visited Cuba in 1998 as a citizen of Switzerland. She and her husband of that time rented a Toyota to tour the countryside. They found that few of the people outside of the tourist district in Havana would talk to them out of fear of being reported. My wife and her husband got hungry while out in the country, but only after begging a cafe manager to let them in could they sneak around to the back and get a meal, which consisted of rice, beans, and pork, and no other choices. They didn't have the correct money to pay, but the manager didn't care. The ordinary Cubans were paying with some kind of voucher. A shop my wife saw there consisted of a single room with concrete walls and floor, a single bare light bulb, and several bushels of yams piled up on the floor in the middle of the room -- the yam shop -- it was all they had to sell. The shop was open 24 hours a day with three shifts of workers. Later on, my wife and her husband had trouble with their rented car and asked for a mechanic. A man showed up on a bicycle. He had three tools wrapped up in a rag, a screwdriver, a pair of pliers, and a file (or something, she wan't sure what it was). He couldn't do anything with the car, and they had to leave it for the tourist bureau to deal with. The mechanic said he manned a repair shop that was open 24 hours a day, with three shifts of workers. The government paid him to work there, but there was little to do. Everything was open 24 hours a day, everyone had a job, but they had nothing to work with and little to sell.

    Back at the hotel a Coke or a juice drink was $5, but you could buy rum drinks for $0.50, so they drank a lot of rum. They exchanged their money for Cuban, but it could only be spent at tourist stores that ordinary Cubans could not enter. My wife remembers one old man who asked her to buy an ice cream from the tourist store, and she did. Ice cream was apparently not otherwise available to ordinary Cubans.

    Every time the US eased up on their policy toward Cuba in the past and opened things up a bit Fidel Castro found a reason to clamp down again. We'll see how it goes this time around.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  2. #12
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    Re: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    one how big is a small islands economy???before the socialist revolution they were among the best economy in latin america,and production was so high for agriculture they were exporting to other countries,after fidel castro and his socialism works better than this innefeciant capitalist system,it turned to cuba importing 80% of its food.cuba went from being one of the best to the worst.
    Kidding me right?


    "Prior to the Cuban Revolution, Cuba had a one-crop economy whose domestic market was constricted. Its population was characterized by chronic unemployment and deep poverty. United States monopolies like Bethlehem Steel Corporation and Speyer gained control over Cuba's national resources, from which they made huge profits. The banks and the country's entire financial system, all electric power production, and most industry was dominated by US capital. US monopolies owned 25 percent of the best land in Cuba, and more than 80 percent of all farm lands were occupied by sugar and livestock-raising latifundia. 90 percent of the country's raw sugar and tobacco exports was sent to the USA. Before the Revolution, most Cuban children were not included in the school system. There was almost no machine-building industry in Cuba"
    Куба (государство) — БС* — Яндекс.Словари


    75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.
    More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.
    85% had no inside running water.
    91% had no electricity.
    There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.
    More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.
    Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.
    The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.
    45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.
    25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.
    1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).
    27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.
    Racial discrimination was widespread.
    The public school system had deteriorated badly.

    The GULLY | Americas | CUBA | What Castro Found

    really couldnt care about life expentancy considering they are dirt poor and starving with almost no medical care.
    If they are "dirt poor" and "starving" then explain to me how they live so long? Please cmon...
    "In the first place, you say that in Cuba we starve on a diet of lies. It is hard to believe that one could starve where the population has a life expectancy of 78, the highest in Latin America, similar to the index in your powerful country and surpassed by very few countries worldwide. The infant mortality index in Cuba at the end of 2008 was 4.7 for every 1000 births (compared to 6/1000 in your country). Worldwide there are nearly a billion people going hungry. If you do the proper research you will see that none of these are Cuban. None of us, hungry Cubans
    Response to an article by Dennis Avery titled "Cubans Starve on a Diet of Lies" | Food First/Institute for Food and Development Policy


  3. #13
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    Re: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution



    Read more @: granma.cu -

    Cuba is not going away. Until we actually want to have a discussion with them that is the day we can move forward on this issue. Cuba si!
    Can I ask you a question? I have a lot of left wing friends, and quite a few self declared Socialists of varying schools of thought. My issue (in addition to many other things) has been when the conversation shifts to Cuba there doesn't seem to be any honest introspection with regards to the almost unwavering support for Castro and the Cuban government. I think we can both agree the island functions more or less as a familial dictatorship, has widespread issues with political prisoners, and endemic social problems that are exacerbated by corruption and the corralling of power by the elites. But they fly to the defense of Cuba almost as an instinct. They don't specify that they believe Cuba is evidence that state capitalism on some scale can work, or that its healthcare system is a superior example of what a socialist mindset and planning can accomplish. Instead they jump to an immediate and passionate defense of the regime itself, almost always coupled with irrelevant denunciations of the United States.

    My question is, and I know I've been a little circuitous, is why defend Cuba? One can believe the US treats with Cuba unfairly, that the US has a negative and aggressive foreign policy, and that Cuba has many successful institutions. I'm not beginning to agree with that mind you, but lets say we accept them. You don't need to defend the Cuban regime to believe or assert any of those things. It sacrifices so much moral legitimacy to defend it.

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    Re: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    My question is, and I know I've been a little circuitous, is why defend Cuba?
    I defend what Cuba is. I defend them and their revolution because they have chosen their own path. I defend the great strides they have made with their social services and their charitable services they offer to help third world countries; not through force, but through peaceful means such as doctors etc. I defend them because of their fight of dealing with US imperialism and US terrorism on their country. I defend their strides of creating a more just society socially. I also defend the grassroots democracy initiatives that have been undertaken by Cuba since the revolution, such as the right to workers to organize in worker assemblies and decide decisions at the workplace and worker parliaments. I defend Castro as a beacon of hope for much of Latin America and appreciate what he has done fro Cuba but i will not defend the authoritarian nature. However saying that i still believe there is hope in Cuba, and see that Castro is a popular leader in his country. But i do not see Cuba as a "familia" runned operation. The Cuban government is much more complex than just the Castro brothers. There is democracy in Cuba, there is just a different kind of democracy. True its not the Liberal US democracy, but it is a different kind of democracy. There are elections in Cuba but it is a single party state but there area also many independents in the National Assembly of Peoples Power. But as a stated ealier i dont believe its a familia operation. I think i now where you are goin gwith that because Fidel was first now its Raul. But Raul was second in command. It will be interesting to see where it goes when Raul passes on. But as listed as stated above, i hope that answers "why cuba"


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    Re: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

    To those people critisising Cuba ...

    You compare Cuba to comperable countries ... like the rest of the carribian or Latin America, compared to those countries Cuba is doing quite well, yeah its not as wealthy or doing so well as the first world, but thats because its not IN the first world ... but its gotten a lot better, especially compared to the other countries in the region.

    As far as it being democratic ... yeah they have local elections and at the local level its way more democratic than say the US, but when it comes to the big decisions ... its not really that democratic ...

    I don't think Cuba is gonna last personally, there is just too much money to be made, I was very very plesantly suprised when more cooperatives were set up, and I mean ACTUAL independant cooperatives (not state cooperatives).

    What I hope for in Cuba is that hte becomes more and more democratic (not in a western way , but in an actual participatory way), and the economy becomes more and more actual socialstic (i.e. people controling their own affairs, not state capitalism).

    What Cuba did for latin America is indispensable, they showed that you can fight against American Imperialism and not only win but do well ... THAT is the real reason the US fights against Cuba, its because they showed that independance is possible, it has nothing to do with human rights or whatever (honestly, who really believes that the US has ever cared about human rights in international politics ... Saudi Arabia ... Indonesia ... Khazakstan ... and so on and so forth), The reforms that happen in Cuba need to be done delicately, I am all for taking the power away from the state and giving it to the people, but not for opening it up to monied interests and corporate power, and along with the economic reforms you need political reforms.

    That being said, American patriots need to get off their high horses, get your democracy in order first, also **** on Cubas economy all you want, they are doing better than countries in the region that stuck with American subservience.

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    Re: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Kidding me right?


    "Prior to the Cuban Revolution, Cuba had a one-crop economy whose domestic market was constricted. Its population was characterized by chronic unemployment and deep poverty. United States monopolies like Bethlehem Steel Corporation and Speyer gained control over Cuba's national resources, from which they made huge profits. The banks and the country's entire financial system, all electric power production, and most industry was dominated by US capital. US monopolies owned 25 percent of the best land in Cuba, and more than 80 percent of all farm lands were occupied by sugar and livestock-raising latifundia. 90 percent of the country's raw sugar and tobacco exports was sent to the USA. Before the Revolution, most Cuban children were not included in the school system. There was almost no machine-building industry in Cuba"
    šƒба (госƒда€с‚во) €” ‘С* €” Яндекс.Слова€и


    75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.
    More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.
    85% had no inside running water.
    91% had no electricity.
    There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.
    More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.
    Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.
    The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.
    45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.
    25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.
    1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).
    27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.
    Racial discrimination was widespread.
    The public school system had deteriorated badly.

    The GULLY | Americas | CUBA | What Castro Found


    If they are "dirt poor" and "starving" then explain to me how they live so long? Please cmon...
    "In the first place, you say that in Cuba we “starve on a diet of lies.” It is hard to believe that one could starve where the population has a life expectancy of 78, the highest in Latin America, similar to the index in your powerful country and surpassed by very few countries worldwide. The infant mortality index in Cuba at the end of 2008 was 4.7 for every 1000 births (compared to 6/1000 in your country). Worldwide there are nearly a billion people going hungry. If you do the proper research you will see that none of these are Cuban. None of us, “hungry Cubans”
    Response to an article by Dennis Avery titled "Cubans Starve on a Diet of Lies" | Food First/Institute for Food and Development Policy
    okyour sources are clearly biased or used turn of the century standards to define pre communist cuba,you can lie and twist it all you want,what you cant defy is cuba was one of the wealthiest countries pre castro and is now the poorest among latin america.

    [The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and thats the way I likes it! Abe Grampa Simpson

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    Re: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    To those people critisising Cuba ...

    You compare Cuba to comperable countries ... like the rest of the carribian or Latin America, compared to those countries Cuba is doing quite well, yeah its not as wealthy or doing so well as the first world, but thats because its not IN the first world ... but its gotten a lot better, especially compared to the other countries in the region.

    As far as it being democratic ... yeah they have local elections and at the local level its way more democratic than say the US, but when it comes to the big decisions ... its not really that democratic ...

    I don't think Cuba is gonna last personally, there is just too much money to be made, I was very very plesantly suprised when more cooperatives were set up, and I mean ACTUAL independant cooperatives (not state cooperatives).

    What I hope for in Cuba is that hte becomes more and more democratic (not in a western way , but in an actual participatory way), and the economy becomes more and more actual socialstic (i.e. people controling their own affairs, not state capitalism).

    What Cuba did for latin America is indispensable, they showed that you can fight against American Imperialism and not only win but do well ... THAT is the real reason the US fights against Cuba, its because they showed that independance is possible, it has nothing to do with human rights or whatever (honestly, who really believes that the US has ever cared about human rights in international politics ... Saudi Arabia ... Indonesia ... Khazakstan ... and so on and so forth), The reforms that happen in Cuba need to be done delicately, I am all for taking the power away from the state and giving it to the people, but not for opening it up to monied interests and corporate power, and along with the economic reforms you need political reforms.

    That being said, American patriots need to get off their high horses, get your democracy in order first, also **** on Cubas economy all you want, they are doing better than countries in the region that stuck with American subservience.
    i guess maybe bolivia is poorer,and venezuela is competing.cuba went from being an exporter of crops to an importer,went from having modern infrastructure being comparible to new york city to looking like the poorest regions of africa and india after comunism took over.

    how can anyone defend going from driving a cadillac and having a nice apartment to using a donkey and living in a house thats roof will collapse.also having no medicine due in ppart to the embargo and also in part to his stance against socialist pigs.
    [The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and thats the way I likes it! Abe Grampa Simpson

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    Re: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

    How about Castro holds real elections for the people of Cuba?

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    Re: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    How about Castro holds real elections for the people of Cuba?
    I agree with you that Castro should hold more open elections, but what would be the point for Castro? If Castro allies won the election the U.S. would take that as proof the elections were unfair. If you think the U.S. really cares about democratic change in Cuba you're not living in reality. If you study Cuban history you will realize that even Castro hasn't done as much to prevent Cuban democracy than the U.S. has. Seriously, Cuba started its life as an independent nation with the U.S. literally writing its own authority into the Cuban constitution. Castro replaced the even more brutal dictator Batista who the U.S. supported nonetheless.

    And don't think all of that is just a thing of the past. In 2002 the U.S. supported the Venezuela coup where right wing forces got into power only to immediately dissolve every democratically elected body at the national level (even though they were internationally recognized as being fairly elected). Even today you need to look at the countries we support like Saudi Arabia, which make the Castro's look like raging liberals.

    The embargo has never been democracy and it never will be. No one outside of the U.S. misses the hypocrisy of the U.S. calling for greater democracy in Cuba.

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    Re: Cuba Celebrates 59th Anniversary Of Revolution

    i guess maybe bolivia is poorer,and venezuela is competing.cuba went from being an exporter of crops to an importer,went from having modern infrastructure being comparible to new york city to looking like the poorest regions of africa and india after comunism took over.

    how can anyone defend going from driving a cadillac and having a nice apartment to using a donkey and living in a house thats roof will collapse.also having no medicine due in ppart to the embargo and also in part to his stance against socialist pigs.
    It was an exporter of crops because the US was its main and natural consumer ...

    Also its has much better living standards than it did before ....

    Also they have better healthcare than the United States ....

    Also Venezuela nad Bolivia have cut their poverty significantly, the central american countries (sticking with US policy) and Colombia and teh such are going the other direction ...

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