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Thread: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

  1. #11
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    Re: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Gee Wally: What Percentage of Federal Individual Income Taxes Do Rich People Really Pay?


    Yep Beave it is REALLY like this:

    Top 5% (Income Split Point $159,619) paid 58.72% of Federal Individual Income Taxes
    Top 10% (Income Split Point $113,799) Paid 69.94% of Federal Individual Income Taxes
    Top 25% (Income Split Point $67,280) Paid 86.34% of Federal Individual Income Taxes
    Top 50% (Income Split Point $33,048) Paid 97.30% of Federal Individual Income Taxes
    Bottom 50% (Anyone Making Less Than $33,048) Paid 2.7% of Federal Individual Income Taxes
    Your data says absolutely NOTHING about what I posted. NOTHING. If the top rate is 35%, why then do the rich pay so much less? That was the point of my post.

    But nice attempt at moving the goal posts to a different filed in a different state. Maybe somebody else would let you get away with it. But not me.
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    Re: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your data says absolutely NOTHING about what I posted. NOTHING. If the top rate is 35%, why then do the rich pay so much less? That was the point of my post.

    But nice attempt at moving the goal posts to a different filed in a different state. Maybe somebody else would let you get away with it. But not me.
    Taxes are much much more complitated than a simple break down like that. For example Ronmey enjoys his comparatively lower tax rate because of the type of money that he earns and because that is taxed differently. Unlike most Americans Ronmey doesn't have ordinary income, as in he doesn't earn wages or a salery at job, he's not employed by anyone nor is he self employed. Ronmey makes his money from capital gains, which is returns on investments and sale of investments at higher prices than what he bought them for. Basically he makes his money not by earning a wage, but by buying/sellings and investing in companies or their stock, bonds, etc.

    Capital gains are taxed differently, and at a lower rate than ordinary income. This was done to encourage investment as a way to stimulate the economy, it was thought that if a lower tax rate was offered people would invest more.

    Now of course its not that simple either, there are all kinds of rules and I'm sure Ronmey as well as other wealthy individuals have different kinds of incomes as well. But thats an example of how a wealthy person can end up paying a lower tax rate on all their income than a middle class person

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    Re: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Taxes are much much more complitated than a simple break down like that. For example Ronmey enjoys his comparatively lower tax rate because of the type of money that he earns and because that is taxed differently. Unlike most Americans Ronmey doesn't have ordinary income, as in he doesn't earn wages or a salery at job, he's not employed by anyone nor is he self employed. Ronmey makes his money from capital gains, which is returns on investments and sale of investments at higher prices than what he bought them for. Basically he makes his money not by earning a wage, but by buying/sellings and investing in companies or their stock, bonds, etc.

    Capital gains are taxed differently, and at a lower rate than ordinary income. This was done to encourage investment as a way to stimulate the economy, it was thought that if a lower tax rate was offered people would invest more.

    Now of course its not that simple either, there are all kinds of rules and I'm sure Ronmey as well as other wealthy individuals have different kinds of incomes as well. But thats an example of how a wealthy person can end up paying a lower tax rate on all their income than a middle class person
    Which is why we should simply tax those sort of earning as normal income according to the normal rate schedules and stop the discriminatory and preferential rates given to capital gains which mainly benefit the rich.

    This is simply The Golden Rule in action.
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    Re: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Which is why we should simply tax those sort of earning as normal income according to the normal rate schedules and stop the discriminatory and preferential rates given to capital gains which mainly benefit the rich.

    This is simply The Golden Rule in action.
    I do agree that change could be in order, those reduced rates for capital gains were not meant to last forever anyway. But at the same time I can see wanting to get people to investment and for many people it would be taxing the same money twice. You earn the money at your job, pay taxes on it then as ordinary income, then invest part of that money and pay taxes on it again.

    Perhaps two different rates one of those whos primary income is capital gains, which would be taxed at a normal rate, and a reduced one for those who's primary income is ordinary income but do some investing as well?

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    Re: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I do agree that change could be in order, those reduced rates for capital gains were not meant to last forever anyway. But at the same time I can see wanting to get people to investment and for many people it would be taxing the same money twice. You earn the money at your job, pay taxes on it then as ordinary income, then invest part of that money and pay taxes on it again.

    Perhaps two different rates one of those whos primary income is capital gains, which would be taxed at a normal rate, and a reduced one for those who's primary income is ordinary income but do some investing as well?
    You are paying taxes on two different piles of money. The first was what you earned from wages. The second was your PROFIT from investment - which is NEW money upon which you have never been taxed.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    Raising taxes is not the answer to revenue or economic issues.
    That is not exactly true. Raising taxes does bring in more revenue under normal economic growth. It can also fix economic issues, like overheating of the economy and such.

    We do need a simpler tax structure that corporations can't take advantage of, and by that I mean writing laws to exempt themselves and creating laws to hurt competition.
    Wow you are the first right winger that has said this... did hell freeze over?

    Because we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, except possibly Japan, we have capital leaving this country, save for the mega-corporations that have taken advantage of the tax code. The wrong thing to do would be to raise taxes on all the businesses including the mega-corps.
    GAHHHHH and you ruin it. You do NOT have the highest corporation tax, you have one of the lowest. On paper yes, the tax rate is high, but the reality is most corporations either pay very very little or dont pay anything at all. In fact the % of corporation taxes of GDP is one of the lowest in the industrialised world... and it has been falling since Bush got in office a decade ago.
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    Re: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I submit my opinion is its a combination of both...we need to end the bush tax cuts and cut spending reasonably...end tax loopholes that allow the richest corporations to pay zero in federal taxs. We need to make it expensive to outsource jobs and employ communist chinese....the rich need to get some patriotism and stop making our enemies rich at the expense of americans..
    If Obama could ever put aside his "Bush Tax Cut" slogan and go straight to real reform of the tax code he and democrats would have a real issue.

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    Re: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your data says absolutely NOTHING about what I posted. NOTHING. If the top rate is 35%, why then do the rich pay so much less? That was the point of my post.

    But nice attempt at moving the goal posts to a different filed in a different state. Maybe somebody else would let you get away with it. But not me.
    Perhaps math and tax law is not your strong suit, in my example I will use 2011 tax rates. 35% is ONLY paid on the ORDINARY INCOME portion of the AGI in the TOP bracket, not on capital gains, interest or dividend income. Say Joe Rich makes $400K, with $100K of that received as stock dividends, the rest as ordinary wage income, then his top bracket (35%) ordinary income is ZERO (since only AGI over $379,150 qualified), the $100K dividend income is taxed at 15% then, assuming average single person deductions of 18% of the remaining $300K as AGI, that leaves about $250 to tax as ordinary income (NOTHING in the top bracket). The remainder of his AGI is taxed as follows: 10% up to $8,500 ($850), 15% up to $34,500 ($3,900), 28% up to 174,400 ($39,172) and 33% up to $379,150 ($24,615) for a total FIT bill of $83,573 or 20.89% of that $400K gross income.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-12-12 at 01:48 PM.
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    Re: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The problem is NOT too little federal taxation, but too much federal spending.
    That's the entire budget problem.
    Last edited by DA60; 07-12-12 at 02:08 PM.

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    Re: CBO: Fed tax rates hit historic low

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I submit my opinion is its a combination of both...we need to end the bush tax cuts and cut spending reasonably...end tax loopholes that allow the richest corporations to pay zero in federal taxs. We need to make it expensive to outsource jobs and employ communist chinese....the rich need to get some patriotism and stop making our enemies rich at the expense of americans..
    Cut spending reasonably, but slash tax cuts and loopholes to the bone. Amazing how some never want to cut spending in a hard way. Did you know that US combined corp income tax rate is the highest in the world?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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