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Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

cpwill said:
actually the "massive" portion of those tax cuts are the ones going to the middle class - that, after all, is where the money is :) and the majority of the middle class take the standard deduction. it's the rich that see larger returns from the mortgage interest deduction.
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And where would the rest be made up??? Are you going to try to convince me that Romney will be taxing his millionaire buddies at a higher rate?



PS
And what about health care premiums keeping their tax exempt status?
 
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MoSurveyor said:
Right now, with the housing industry in it's current position, that's a VERY poor stance to take
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politically? :shrug: it might be easy to demagogue, but rather easy to answer. Why should the rest of us subsidize the wealthy having an apartment in New York City and a house down in Florida?
 
MoSurveyor said:
And where would the rest be made up??? Are you going to try to convince me that Romney will be taxing his millionaire buddies at a higher rate?
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some of them might end up paying higher effective rates, but likely the majority of them (like the majority of all Americans) would have a lower effective rate.

And what about health care premiums keeping their tax exempt status?
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the tax-exempt status of employer purchased healthcare is the main reason we see double-digit inflation year after year in that industry, and is the primary reason why middle class wages have been depressed off of their compensatory growth for the past couple of decades. It is long since past time we slayed that monstrous unintended consequence of FDR's wage controls.
 
cpwill said:
politically? :shrug: it might be easy to demagogue, but rather easy to answer. Why should the rest of us subsidize the wealthy having an apartment in New York City and a house down in Florida?
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You want REAL job creation instead of political bullchit? Get the housing industry back on track. Romney will be subsidizing the rich bastards anyway - we may as well make sure some Americans get employed with that money.
 
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cpwill said:
the tax-exempt status of employer purchased healthcare is the main reason we see double-digit inflation year after year in that industry, and is the primary reason why middle class wages have been depressed off of their compensatory growth for the past couple of decades. It is long since past time we slayed that monstrous unintended consequence of FDR's wage controls.
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:roll: :lamo
 
MoSurveyor said:
You want REAL job creation instead of political bullchit? Get the housing industry back on track. Romney will be subsidizing the rich bastards anyway - we may as well make sure some Americans get employed with that money.
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Attempting to reinflate a bubble rather than allowing capital to reach it's actual value is not going to lead to steady economic growth or consistent job creation. The Housing Market is still sitting on a glut of supply - attempting to reinflate it is pushing on string. You want job growth? Unleash the energy industry.

Though I like the "Romney will be subsidizing the rich bastards anyway" line; the combination of the denigration of the successful and the unproven implicit accusations of conspiracy really bring home the flavor of the modern day left.
 
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cpwill said:
From that famous right-wing rag The New York Times. :)
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You really should read a bit more of your links and a bit about the author of the linked article. Prof Reinhardt says the primary reason for the high cost of healthcare in America is administrative costs, which at present take 24%+ of every dollar spent. This is twice the rate spent in Canada, yet those who oppose Obamacare have complained about the 20% maximum administration rate in the plan because it takes money away from investors.

OnPBS's Frontline show, Prof Reinhardt said that if administrative costs were cut in half, down to Canada's rate, enough money would be saved to pay for all of the uninsured.
 
Somerville said:
Prof Reinhardt says the primary reason for the high cost of healthcare in America is administrative costs, which at present take 24%+ of every dollar spent.
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Yes, doctors offices and hospitals need a whole administrative staff to keep up with and make sure they are following all the red tape that GOVERNMENT has laid upon them. And yet people think it is GOVERNMENT that is the answer, when they have mostly been the problem.
 
Arbo said:
Yes, doctors offices and hospitals need a whole administrative staff to keep up with and make sure they are following all the red tape that GOVERNMENT has laid upon them. And yet people think it is GOVERNMENT that is the answer, when they have mostly been the problem.
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A small redo of the comment that I think more accurately reflects reality

Yes, doctors offices and hospitals need a whole administrative staff to keep up with and make sure they are following all the red tape that INSURANCE COMPANIES laid upon them. And yet people think it is ONLY Private businesses that are the answer, when they have mostly been the problem.


also, one's political bias does tend to make one post silly comments: "Administrative costs" in this instance are primarily those of the insurance industry, 22-25% of total cost of private insurance. In contrast, government-funded health care, VA, Medicare, Medicaid, administrative costs run between 3% and 7%
 
Somerville said:
A small redo of the comment that I think more accurately reflects reality

Yes, doctors offices and hospitals need a whole administrative staff to keep up with and make sure they are following all the red tape that INSURANCE COMPANIES laid upon them. And yet people think it is ONLY Private businesses that are the answer, when they have mostly been the problem.


also, one's political bias does tend to make one post silly comments: "Administrative costs" in this instance are primarily those of the insurance industry, 22-25% of total cost of private insurance. In contrast, government-funded health care, VA, Medicare, Medicaid, administrative costs run between 3% and 7%
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I would like to see your sources on that. I have seen documentaries (even on leftist media) and other media where doctors have often complained about "administrative costs" but they always point out Medicare/Medicaid not insurance companies. They do complain about insurance companies, primarily the cost of malpractice insurance.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Right now, with the housing industry in it's current position, that's a VERY poor stance to take. If anything the housing industry could use a little help right now.
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And exactly how do we help the housing industry? Face it, it will never return to level it was and until the glut of pre-existing homes is cleared up, there really is no way to return jobs to construction. Many of these individuals who work in that sector are just going to have to find different work. Recovery in this market sector is just going to take a very long time. This is not even a problem in all areas, in my local area, housing contruction is still going on at a pretty good pace, but we never really crashed either. The only way those areas affected are going to recover soon to any level is if they somehow recreated the conditions that caused the bubble, but creating a new bubble just means it will burst latter down the road, not a good idea.
 
MoSurveyor said:
You want REAL job creation instead of political bullchit? Get the housing industry back on track. Romney will be subsidizing the rich bastards anyway - we may as well make sure some Americans get employed with that money.
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The housing industry cannot get back on track until median wages and the housing price index get in better shape. The cost of a house needs to be in the 2.5 to 2.9 multiplier of median income to get sales going again. They still arent. Wages are still low, and likely to remain that way as well as hiring---IE housing prices will not be rising because there are not many buyers right now. You cant mandate something to grow, there are enough tax breake built into the housing market, the prices are still high in comparison to median wages.
 
DVSentinel said:
And exactly how do we help the housing industry?
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First off people (especially liberals) need to understand why the housing industry is having problems.

American manufacturing jobs were sent to China because of all the outrageous demands made by unions. All these people were now out of work and couldn't pay their mortgages. The goofy union members still don't realize they are at fault for this.

If we change our environmental and labor laws, we might be able to get some of those jobs back.
 
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johnny_rebson said:
First off people (especially liberals) need to understand why the housing industry is having problems.

American manufacturing jobs were sent to China because of all the outrageous demands made by unions. All these people were now out of work and couldn't pay their mortgages. The goofy union members still don't realize they are at fault for this.

If we change our environmental and labor laws, we might be able to get some of those jobs back.
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You obviously have a link to this completely objective position you hold..right?
Can I see it?
 
Somerville said:
A small redo of the comment that I think more accurately reflects reality

Yes, doctors offices and hospitals need a whole administrative staff to keep up with and make sure they are following all the red tape that INSURANCE COMPANIES laid upon them. And yet people think it is ONLY Private businesses that are the answer, when they have mostly been the problem.


also, one's political bias does tend to make one post silly comments: "Administrative costs" in this instance are primarily those of the insurance industry, 22-25% of total cost of private insurance. In contrast, government-funded health care, VA, Medicare, Medicaid, administrative costs run between 3% and 7%
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Your editing does not bring forth the truth in any fashion. I am in the health care industry, I work at dozens of hospitals, it is government red tape that hampers them and inflates costs more than anything. Every hospital administrator I have talked to knows this.
 
haymarket said:
I would love to never again use the little rubber hammer hitting your knee line. Please help. You as a long time standing right winger can prevent this by simply not making the typical and predictable knee jerk responses by mentioning somebody from the left every time you are impotent to defend the actions of one of your icons on the far right.

Its all up to you Turtle.
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your posts sometimes appear to be caused by large iron hammers hitting your head.

Your knee jerk response is to demand other people pay more money to a wasteful and bloated government
 
Somerville said:
You really should read a bit more of your links and a bit about the author of the linked article.
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:) the point was that the problems created by the distorted incentive structure of the employer health insurance tax exemption are generally universally recognized, and remain only because it is a policy easy to demagogue. But thanks for playing.
 
cpwill said:
:) the point was that the problems created by the distorted incentive structure of the employer health insurance tax exemption are generally universally recognized, and remain only because it is a policy easy to demagogue. But thanks for playing.
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Easy to fix...tax the workers and tax public workers double and give the rich another tax cut...right marine :)
 
lpast said:
Easy to fix...tax the workers and tax public workers double and give the rich another tax cut...right marine :)
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No. Quit distorting the market through a failed and ridiculously complex tax system, and apply simpler but lower nominal rates to all.


In particular with regards to health care, I'd like to see all exemptions be done away in a budget-neutral fashion in return for a universal tax credit.
 
cpwill said:
No. Quit distorting the market through a failed and ridiculously complex tax system, and apply simpler but lower nominal rates to all.


In particular with regards to health care, I'd like to see all exemptions be done away in a budget-neutral fashion in return for a universal tax credit.
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How does that help all those with no health insurance, who cant possibly pay for it
 
cpwill said:
You know, it occurs to me. Are you aware as you write this that Romney has called for even greater tax breaks for the middle class than Obama has? [...]
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Wouldn't be surprising... Republicans always cut taxes and blow up the budget and the deficit and the total debt, then blame it on the next Democrat that inherits the mess. Reagan tripled the total public (gross) debt, GWB doubled it. SOS, DD.
 
Karl said:
Wouldn't be surprising... Republicans always cut taxes and blow up the budget and the deficit and the total debt, then blame it on the next Democrat that inherits the mess. Reagan tripled the total public (gross) debt, GWB doubled it. SOS, DD.
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dems always engage in behavior that causes the middle class to demand more and more and more government spending
 
TurtleDude said:
dems always engage in behavior that causes the middle class to demand more and more and more government spending
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That sounds correct. Dems want to share tax collections with the majority and the Repubs want to give it to the 1%.
 
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