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Thread: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

  1. #621
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Because the rich have been very busy buying those 535 votes in Congress, so of course, the game is rigged in favor of Congress's masters.
    uh yet the rich spend as much time promoting far left nonsense as they do right wing hackery

    but your point has no relevance to the point you quoted

    as to your other post (619) remind me of your education in constitutional law. that post of yours clearly demonstrates you really have no understanding of the concept of natural law and natural rights and those concepts importance in the foundation supporting the US Constitution

  2. #622
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh yet the rich spend as much time promoting far left nonsense as they do right wing hackery

    but your point has no relevance to the point you quoted

    as to your other post (619) remind me of your education in constitutional law. that post of yours clearly demonstrates you really have no understanding of the concept of natural law and natural rights and those concepts importance in the foundation supporting the US Constitution
    It has been explained to you that natural rights and natural law are beliefs that one takes on through an article of faith. As such they prove nothing as they may or may not exist and neither you nor anyone else can do so.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is your personal belief. It cannot be proven. And because it cannot be proven it cannot be used to prove that somebody who does not believe as you do is wrong.
    that is not the point

    the issue is whether the founders believed it and the document they created was based on that belief.

    I don't believe that the Pope is God's vicar to earth but for me to claim that the Papacy is not based on that FACT (the fact being what the RC church holds as one of its prime beliefs) would be stupid

    whether natural rights and natural law actually "exist" is not relevant. what is relevant is that the founders certainly did and thus the document known as the US Constitution presumes such existence

    where you failed was saying that the second amendment is the source of a right and that is contrary to what those who wrote it intended or those who interpret it have held

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It has been explained to you that natural rights and natural law are beliefs that one takes on through an article of faith. As such they prove nothing as they may or may not exist.
    Duh-but what you don't understand is that I am not arguing as to their existence but as to the FACT that those who wrote the constitution PRESUMED THEY DID EXIST

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is not the point

    the issue is whether the founders believed it and the document they created was based on that belief.

    I don't believe that the Pope is God's vicar to earth but for me to claim that the Papacy is not based on that FACT (the fact being what the RC church holds as one of its prime beliefs) would be stupid

    whether natural rights and natural law actually "exist" is not relevant. what is relevant is that the founders certainly did and thus the document known as the US Constitution presumes such existence

    where you failed was saying that the second amendment is the source of a right and that is contrary to what those who wrote it intended or those who interpret it have held
    NO that is not the issue and never was the issue. I stated very clearly that the Second Amendment DID NOT give you the right to own any firearm you wanted.

    Now you are telling us that the Second Amendment does not give us any rights. My statement is covered by your statement of agreement.

    By your own admission the Second Amendment does not GIVE US certain rights. I stated that it DID NOT GIVE US certain rights.

    You agree with me.

    But you are so eager to both defend guns and attack me that you allowed your poor reading comprehension skills to short circuit your intellect.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Duh-but what you don't understand is that I am not arguing as to their existence but as to the FACT that those who wrote the constitution PRESUMED THEY DID EXIST
    It matters not what they believed in be it GOD or natural rights or the Easter Bunny. If what they believed in is false or at best cannot be proven, it is irrelevant because something cannot come from nothing. In the end, if rights DO NOT come from GOD or natural law or the easter bunny we still have those rights as coming from the Constitution as expressed through the will of the people.

    The belief in a fiction - even a popular one - is irrelevant in offering any proof that someone who does not believe in it was wrong.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #627
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh yet the rich spend as much time promoting far left nonsense as they do right wing hackery

    but your point has no relevance to the point you quoted

    as to your other post (619) remind me of your education in constitutional law. that post of yours clearly demonstrates you really have no understanding of the concept of natural law and natural rights and those concepts importance in the foundation supporting the US Constitution
    Show me God and the Commons and we'll be fine. Until then "natural rights" as you're using them are a fantasy. If the foundations of the philosophy have disappeared then so does the philosophy founded upon them.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-29-12 at 12:53 AM.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Show me God and the Commons and we'll be fine. Until then "natural rights" as you're using them are a fantasy. If the foundations of the philosophy have disappeared then so does the philosophy founded upon them.
    the issue is what the bill of rights was created for

    its obvious you do not know

    it was not to Create rights but to recognize rights the founders believed they had

    try again

  9. #629
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you got pwned, that was an error of epic proportions.
    So... in TurtleDude's history book, a British invasion of the U.S. precipitated the War of 1812. Well, in Texas, they may just buy it... right next to the chapter that explains how the Earth is only 6,000 years old

  10. #630
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    So... in TurtleDude's history book, a British invasion of the U.S. precipitated the War of 1812. Well, in Texas, they may just buy it... right next to the chapter that explains how the Earth is only 6,000 years old
    you'd be better off just finding another thread rather than accentuating your fail

    why are you bringing this up again

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