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Thread: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    YOu can prove the existence of neither one. They are artificial constructs that become parts of ones self imposed belief system. As such, they are a matter of pure faith or belief and cannot be used to prove someone is correct or wrong in rejecting them.
    I don't need to prove they exist. this country's constitution is based on the assumption they do exist

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I don't need to prove they exist. this country's constitution is based on the assumption they do exist
    To have any credibility on this issue, actually you do. Of course if you want no credibility, continue down the path you are now on.

    The Country was founded by people who also assumed that GOD exists. And you reject that proposition.

    I maintain two very verifiable things about the Constitutional rights of Americans based on reality

    1- enough people have to agree that they want a certain behavior recognized and protected as a right
    2- they force the government to recognize it as a right

    That is where rights in America come from.

    You maintain that they come from something you cannot even prove exists.
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-28-12 at 10:15 PM.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The Country was founded by people who also assumed that GOD exists. And you reject that proposition.

    I maintain two very verifiable things about the Constitutional rights of Americans based on reality

    1- enough people have to agree that they want a certain behavior recognized and protected as a right
    2- they force the government to recognize it as a right

    That is where rights in America come from.

    You maintain that they come from something you cannot even prove exists.
    the issue is that you made a stupendous error concerning the foundations of the constitution

    and no matter what you do you cannot overcome that error.

    you can whine all you want

    take it up with the founders and the supreme court

    not me

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the issue is that you made a stupendous error concerning the foundations of the constitution

    and no matter what you do you cannot overcome that error.

    you can whine all you want

    take it up with the founders and the supreme court

    not me
    There was no error.

    I challenge you to show me the error.

    You are impotent to do so because no error of fact was made.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    G.O.P. Senators Face Risks Over Proposal on Tax Cuts

    "In all, the Republican plan would extend tax cuts for 2.7 million affluent families while allowing tax breaks to expire for 13 million on the bottom of the income spectrum, tax analysts say. An impact analysis released Monday by Congressís Joint Committee on Taxation said a permanent extension of all the Bush-era tax cuts would cut taxes on households with more than $1 million of annual income by $74,505 next year. The Democratic proposal would cut taxes for those same households by $7,055."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/us...-cut-plan.html
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    The silence from Turtle is deafening.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Honestly its a subjective "debate" you are having here.. The Constitution and its amendments are the compiling of an attempt at a written and enforceable assortment of natural laws- The constitution enforces and protects the rights that in some form or another are deemed just(natural).
    Men do what they have to when they want to, Great men do what they have to, even when they don't want to.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    more stupidity. its the government that distinguishes between the two
    Because the rich have been very busy buying those 535 votes in Congress, so of course, the game is rigged in favor of Congress's masters.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-29-12 at 12:08 AM.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    natural law, natural rights-look it up
    Fail

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    No one gives you rights, haymarket. Rights are something that are yours by virtue of your nature as man. The state is erected to secure those rights.

    But if you want a historical perspective--something one would think a person who spent his years 'teaching' history would offer himself--rights are bestowed upon man by God. So if you believe in that sort of thing, the answer to your question is God.
    Double fail


    The only "natural" rights are the right to attempt to survive and the right to attempt to reproduce. And notice I used the word 'attempt' in both cases. You do not have the right to live nor the right to reproduce, just the rights to attempt to do both. That's the only "natural" rights, those rights that all animals share. Anything beyond that is a man-made device.



    There is the occasional thread that pops up attempting to prove the existence of God, of which all have failed. Until that premise is proved all philosophies based on it fail miserably. This isn't the Dark Ages anymore.



    Ed:
    And I'd like to see the commons that Locke also uses as a basis for his philosophy. I know of no such place in America where a man without assets can go to live without being beholden to someone else. Servitude has become the rule in America, Locke's 'commons' are all gone.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-29-12 at 12:41 AM.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    No one gives you rights, haymarket. Rights are something that are yours by virtue of your nature as man. The state is erected to secure those rights.

    But if you want a historical perspective--something one would think a person who spent his years 'teaching' history would offer himself--rights are bestowed upon man by God. So if you believe in that sort of thing, the answer to your question is God.
    That is your personal belief. It cannot be proven. And because it cannot be proven it cannot be used to prove that somebody who does not believe as you do is wrong.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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