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Thread: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Yes, the U.S. declared war on the British and mostly got their ass handed to them, including getting their capitol sacked. Personally I don't see the hilarity in that.

    I will, however, await the hilarity of you joining TurtleDude in explaining just exactly how the British invasion of the U.S. precipitated the war of 1812, and just exactly where and when this war-causing British invasion happened. Let's review the original goalpost, which some seem to be tugging upon:


    However, I will now readily concede one error -- TurtleDude was serious, and it appears he wasn't the only one
    you got pwned, that was an error of epic proportions.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    No one gives you rights, haymarket. Rights are something that are yours by virtue of your nature as man. The state is erected to secure those rights.

    But if you want a historical perspective--something one would think a person who spent his years 'teaching' history would offer himself--rights are bestowed upon man by God. So if you believe in that sort of thing, the answer to your question is God.
    claiming that the bill of rights GAVE US rights is an unbelievably stupendous error for someone who claims to understand the constitution. It would be akin to zoologist claiming that a frog is a mammal

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    claiming that the bill of rights GAVE US rights is an unbelievably stupendous error for someone who claims to understand the constitution.
    True-the correct wording would be that the bill of rights ENSURES those rights..
    Men do what they have to when they want to, Great men do what they have to, even when they don't want to.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruityfact View Post
    True-the correct wording would be that the bill of rights ENSURES those rights..
    from US V Cruikshank

    The right there specified is that of 'bearing arms for a lawful purpose.' This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed; but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress.

    recognizes rights that existed before the document was written and would remain if the document were to cease to exist

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    claiming that the bill of rights GAVE US rights is an unbelievably stupendous error for someone who claims to understand the constitution. It would be akin to zoologist claiming that a frog is a mammal
    You are misrepresenting my quote that you took issue with. Read it again. Read it carefully and you will see no error of fact.

    You tell us then where your Constitutional rights come from.

    You do not have a right if the government does not recognize that right. Our Constitution sets those out for us and forces the government to recognize them.
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-28-12 at 09:44 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You tell us then where your Constitutional rights come from.
    Not from the constitution

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    from US V Cruikshank

    The right there specified is that of 'bearing arms for a lawful purpose.' This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed; but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress.

    recognizes rights that existed before the document was written and would remain if the document were to cease to exist
    Where exactly did these right exist if not in the nation where people lived?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Not from the constitution
    BBBBBZZZZTTTTT!!!!!

    The Ivy League educated attorney fails to answer the question......... again.

    Where do your Constitutional rights come from?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    BBBBBZZZZTTTTT!!!!!

    The Ivy League educated attorney fails to answer the question......... again.

    Where do your Constitutional rights come from?

    you already have been edified on this topic. Natural law and natural rights

    I cannot help it if you don't understand the concept or reject it. the fact remains, the constitution was based on those assumptions and your claim that the Second Amendment GIVES rights is moronic

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you already have been edified on this topic. Natural law and natural rights

    I cannot help it if you don't understand the concept or reject it. the fact remains, the constitution was based on those assumptions and your claim that the Second Amendment GIVES rights is moronic
    YOu cannot prove the existence of neither one. They are artificial constructs that become parts of ones self imposed belief system. As such, they are a matter of pure faith or belief and cannot be used to prove someone is correct or wrong in rejecting them.

    Where did I claim that the Second Amendment gave you anything?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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