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Thread: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

  1. #521
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Where did I say it is not a tax on earned income
    You didn't and I didn't say you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    more idiocy FICA is a tax with a ceiling therefore it is not progressive. nice misrepresentation of what I said
    I didn't say it was progressive. It's the exact opposite - FICA is regressive, which is exactly why you don't want to discuss it. It makes you look bad and makes your case much, much weaker. Add 7.45% to the taxes and tax rates of the bottom 80%, and especially the middle 40-80%, and the rich start to look like they're skating. It doesn't take a whole lot to reach 15% when you've got 7.45% coming off the top. And make no mistake, everyone in the lower 80% pays 7.45% of their income off the top, BEFORE ANY DEDUCTIONS and with zero chance of a refund on that money.



    On the flip side, capital gains have no FICA taken out.
    Salaries above $106k only get the 7.45% FICA tax until $106k - everything else is gravy.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-28-12 at 02:02 AM.
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  2. #522
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    I find the irony delicious that the Republicans voted against tax cuts for the middle class just before the battle between the middle class and the super rich.

    "Republicans often try to mislead the public about their true intentions, because they’d be in a lot of trouble if folks realized that the only constituents they ever work for are the very rich. But in a series of votes yesterday, the party made its true stance on taxes clear. They will do everything in their power to prevent tax hikes on the richest of the rich, but they have no objections to raising taxes on the poor and middle class.

    Republicans in the Senate voted en masse against a Democratic bill that would have extended the Bush tax cuts, but only up to the first $250,000 in income. Instead, they offered their own bill, which would have kept the tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires, but raised taxes on the middle class. I wonder how the voters will feel about that?"

    GOP votes against middle-class tax cut - Topix
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  3. #523
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Do I understand you correctly that if a person makes only one dollar a year they are to at least pay 5% of that dollar to the government. How about if a person makes only one dollar a yr they pay a minimum of 10%, and the rate goes up from there. No one escapes paying some taxes.
    All people who earn money should pay federal income tax. Right now we have the oft demonized 47% who are convenient target as they do not pay federal income tax. I am advocating that ALL Americans who earn at least one dollar a year pay income tax. I would start that at five percent for the very lowest bracket. I would take the current brackets and add five points across the board. In other words the current top 35% bracket becomes 40% and so on.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    But your words dont square with your desires. IF everyone was forced to pay income taxes to the federal government, people would be much less inclined to see government grow. The only way the left can increase the power of the state is to use the tax dollars confiscated from one group as a means of purchasing the eternal gratitude, and votes, of another. Your supposed desire for sharing the tax burden does not square with your overarching desire for bigger government. You support a raise in your own taxes for two reasons: 1. you know it wont happen 2. it provides you with a degree of cover for when you go after the real target for tax increases--the rich. But nice try, though.
    My position is my position and it is sincere. In addition to that I want a DECREASE in the federal budget spending of at least $300 billion right now.

    Have you also graduated from the Turtle Mind Reading Correspondence Course?
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    LOL, I am a labor attorney-ever heard of a closed shop?

    and did you read Beck-it went up to the USSC
    A labor attorney who takes the side of management against the side of labor.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I didn't think you were actually making enough to get to that rate based on earlier posts

    but the rich pay a higher amount of taxes than you do

    they pay a higher rate on earned income, investment income as well

    FICA is not a progressive tax and its based on earned income not overall income-fail on your part

    and most rich people pay more than you do

    and if all their income is investment income they won't get as much social security will they?

    nice try fail
    How does a constant repetition of the exact same talking points in post after post after post and in thread after thread after thread constitute anything other than spamming? Your same talking points have been refuted so often and by so many people that I am surprised even you can still type the words without bursting into laughter knowing the utter ridiculousness of what you are saying.

    You keep saying that the issue is that the rich pay more but you have been shown over and over and over that the rich now pay a LOWER PERCENTAGE of thier income in taxes than at any time in the last seven decades.

    You keep saying that the rich pay the highest rate on capital gains but you have been shown over and over and over that the rate itself - 15% - is tremendously preferential and discriminatory since well over 80% of the breaks from it go to the very wealthy.

    You do not want FICA taxes considered in the over all tax burden percentage a person pays and you keep saying it was not suppose to be a progressive tax but you ignore that over and over and over again the other side is NOT asking for FICA to be progressive. They are merely advocating that 100% of American earners pay the SAME FICA percentage on 100% of their income. Nobody is asking FICA be made a progressive tax. NOBODY.

    You keep whining that rich people pay more tax that non rich people but you have been told over and over and over that when one calculates ALL taxes a person pays, many rich people pay an over all SMALLER percentage of their income to government than some working people do.

    You keep whining about the rich paying more but you conveniently play ostrich to the economic reality that a very tiny percentage of rich Americans control a very large percentage of money and wealth in America.

    You follow the orders of your corporate and ideological masters (how do you like it when others claim you have masters) and keep using the neologism DEATH TAX long after even your yourself cannot provide on name of one person whose death was taxed without a transfer of significant wealth to another.

    If you have been schooled on these realties once, you have been schooled on them hundreds of times Turtle. Hundreds and hundreds of times by many many different posters.

    But you keep coming back and posting the exact same talking points over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread in your cause celebre to lower your own personal tax bite and the nation be damned.

    That is not debate. It is a broken record. And its got a lousy beat and you can't dance to it either.
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-28-12 at 09:03 AM.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A labor attorney who takes the side of management against the side of labor.
    generally the one that promotes justice

  8. #528
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    How does a constant repetition of the exact same talking points in post after post after post and in thread after thread after thread constitute anything other than spamming? Your same talking points have been refuted so often and by so many people that I am surprised even you can still type the words without bursting into laughter knowing the utter ridiculousness of what you are saying.

    You keep saying that the issue is that the rich pay more but you have been shown over and over and over that the rich now pay a LOWER PERCENTAGE of thier income in taxes than at any time in the last seven decades.

    You keep saying that the rich pay the highest rate on capital gains but you have been shown over and over and over that the rate itself - 15% - is tremendously preferential and discriminatory since well over 80% of the breaks from it go to the very wealthy.

    You do not want FICA taxes considered in the over all tax burden percentage a person pays and you keep saying it was not suppose to be a progressive tax but you ignore that over and over and over again the other side is NOT asking for FICA to be progressive. They are merely advocating that 100% of American earners pay the SAME FICA percentage on 100% of their income. Nobody is asking FICA be made a progressive tax. NOBODY.

    You keep whining that rich people pay more tax that non rich people but you have been told over and over and over that when one calculates ALL taxes a person pays, many rich people pay an over all SMALLER percentage of their income to government than some working people do.

    You keep whining about the rich paying more but you conveniently play ostrich to the economic reality that a very tiny percentage of rich Americans control a very large percentage of money and wealth in America.

    If you have been schooled on these realties once, you have been schooled on them hundreds of times Turtle. Hundreds and hundreds of times by many many different posters.

    But you keep coming back and posting the exact same talking points over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread in your cause celebre to lower your own personal tax bite and the nation be damned.

    That is not debate. It is a broken record.
    we know your goals

    a permanent majority beholden to the dems for hand outs means the dems will always win elections while America loses by having so many people sucking on the public teats

  9. #529
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    we know your goals

    a permanent majority beholden to the dems for hand outs means the dems will always win elections while America loses by having so many people sucking on the public teats
    More with the Turtle Mind Reading Schtick and Trick. When did I ever advocate for the utter nonsense that you just posted?

    Do you get some kick out of repeatedly using that metaphor the way some fifth grade boy would seem to do?

    Why are you impotent to address each of the points that I just crushed and flushed you on?
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-28-12 at 09:11 AM.
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  10. #530
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    More with the Turtle Mind Reading Schtick and Trick. When did I ever advocate for the utter nonsense that you just posted?

    Do you get some kick out of repeatedly using that metaphor the way some fifth grade boy would seem to do?

    Why are you impotent to address each of the points that I just crushed and flushed you on?
    its so obvious. make the rich pay more and more so the money can be used to buy votes for dem masters



    I love your self awarded accomplishments

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