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Thread: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Defense, not world hegemony to make the 1% richer. That's the distinction between spending more than the next biggest military spender and spending as much as the rest of the world combined on military.
    Much of our defense spending is pay related and pensions. Would you call for a draft to be installed or pay cuts for those in the military.

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    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Really now? Are not the citizens a major part of what is the United States?

    Why does this require anything but basic reading comprehension?
    That's exactly what it requires, and nothing more. Specific groups getting their individual basic needs provided is no better a description of "promoting the general welfare of the United States" than a triple bypass surgery can accurately be called "community health promotion."

    There's a reason the Document says "provide for" the common defense versus "promote" the general welfare. Had the document said "provide for the welfare of the People," that would mean something very different. Like you said, reading comprehension.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Much of our defense spending is pay related and pensions. Would you call for a draft to be installed or pay cuts for those in the military.
    I think a return to a draft would be a great idea, but not necessary to cut wasteful military spending. Simply stopping the waging of optional wars for US hegemony would save us trillions.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    That's exactly what it requires, and nothing more. Specific groups getting their individual basic needs provided is no better a description of "promoting the general welfare of the United States" than a triple bypass surgery can accurately be called "community health promotion."

    There's a reason the Document says "provide for" the common defense versus "promote" the general welfare. Had the document said "provide for the welfare of the People," that would mean something very different. Like you said, reading comprehension.
    And in using these ample reading comprehension skills you have, can you tell us what PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE means when it is divorced and separated and kept distinct and apart from the actual citizens for whom the Constitution and the government it created was written for in the first place?

    And how is that divorced, separated or kept distinct from the rest of that SAME SENTENCE that leads into the general welfare clause?

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    That's exactly what it requires, and nothing more. Specific groups getting their individual basic needs provided is no better a description of "promoting the general welfare of the United States" than a triple bypass surgery can accurately be called "community health promotion."

    There's a reason the Document says "provide for" the common defense versus "promote" the general welfare. Had the document said "provide for the welfare of the People," that would mean something very different. Like you said, reading comprehension.
    However, "Justice Story concluded that the General Welfare Clause is not a grant of general legislative power,[6][4] but a qualification on the taxing power[7][8][4] which includes within it a federal power to spend federal revenues on matters of general interest to the federal government."

    General Welfare clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Defense, not world hegemony to make the 1% richer. That's the distinction between spending more than the next biggest military spender and spending as much as the rest of the world combined on military.
    All irrelevant to the constitutionality of governments role in providing for national defense.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    All irrelevant to the constitutionality of governments role in providing for national defense.
    I do not understand what you point is in saying this. Do you believe that anyone here is disputing that the federal government constitutionally provides for national defense?
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    All irrelevant to the constitutionality of governments role in providing for national defense.
    We provided national defense before while spending a whole lot less than the rest of the world combined. I agree with the Constitutionalists and the Libertarians on military spending - defense only!


    Either that or add the costs of keeping the oil flowing from the Mid East to the price at the pump, and stop putting it on our National credit card.
    Last edited by Catawba; 07-27-12 at 03:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And in using these ample reading comprehension skills you have, can you tell us what PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE means when it is divorced and separated and kept distinct and apart from the actual citizens for whom the Constitution and the government it created was written for in the first place?

    And how is that divorced, separated or kept distinct from the rest of that SAME SENTENCE that leads into the general welfare clause?

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
    You have to infer that it means whatever it is you want it to mean.

    It could be argued that welfare benefits are really a function of insuring domestic tranquility. Or that "common defense" also includes defense against illness and death, or that secure the Blessings of Liberty means steep tax rates on the wealthy. We can argue it means whatever the hell we feel like. If you want the federal government to have unlimited powers, you (i.e. SCOTUS) can craft an explanation that it is, in fact, Constitutional. I guess the Constitution is no longer a valid way to argue this.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    You have to infer that it means whatever it is you want it to mean.

    It could be argued that welfare benefits are really a function of insuring domestic tranquility. Or that "common defense" also includes defense against illness and death, or that secure the Blessings of Liberty means steep tax rates on the wealthy. We can argue it means whatever the hell we feel like. If you want the federal government to have unlimited powers, you (i.e. SCOTUS) can craft an explanation that it is, in fact, Constitutional. I guess the Constitution is no longer a valid way to argue this.
    Why does one have to want the federal government to have unlimited powers to make any of those conclusions or any others?

    Do you really know anyone here who takes the position that they want the federal government to have unlimited powers? Because I have never come up with one.
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