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Thread: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Are you saying that you are more interested in what someone else has than in what you have yourself?

    I am saying I should not pay a higher percentage of what I earn than someone who pays far far less actual tax dollars but uses more government services

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    what was the source?
    Greg Mankiw's Blog: The Progressivity of Taxes and Transfers

    To update one of the tables for the next edition of my favorite textbook, I have been looking at the new CBO report on the distribution of income and taxes. I found the following calculations, based on the numbers in the CBO's Table 7, illuminating.

    Because transfer payments are, in effect, the opposite of taxes, it makes sense to look not just at taxes paid, but at taxes paid minus transfers received. For 2009, the most recent year available, here are taxes less transfers as a percentage of market income (income that households earned from their work and savings):

    Bottom quintile: -301 percent
    Second quintile: -42 percent
    Middle quintile: -5 percent
    Fourth quintile: 10 percent
    Highest quintile: 22 percent

    Top one percent: 28 percent

    The negative 301 percent means that a typical family in the bottom quintile receives about $3 in transfer payments for every dollar earned.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Greg Mankiw's Blog: The Progressivity of Taxes and Transfers

    To update one of the tables for the next edition of my favorite textbook, I have been looking at the new CBO report on the distribution of income and taxes. I found the following calculations, based on the numbers in the CBO's Table 7, illuminating.

    Because transfer payments are, in effect, the opposite of taxes, it makes sense to look not just at taxes paid, but at taxes paid minus transfers received. For 2009, the most recent year available, here are taxes less transfers as a percentage of market income (income that households earned from their work and savings):

    Bottom quintile: -301 percent
    Second quintile: -42 percent
    Middle quintile: -5 percent
    Fourth quintile: 10 percent
    Highest quintile: 22 percent

    Top one percent: 28 percent

    The negative 301 percent means that a typical family in the bottom quintile receives about $3 in transfer payments for every dollar earned.

    When it gets peer reviewed let me know.

    Psst BTW dude from the blog:

    Update: A reader points out the CBO's transfer data includes state and local transfers, but the tax data includes only federal taxes. If state and local taxes were included, or if state and local transfers were excluded, the middle quintile might well turn positive, though the CBO does not provide the data to establish that conclusion definitively.
    Last edited by winston53660; 07-27-12 at 12:42 AM.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    When it gets peer reviewed let me know.
    Go to the IRS. They have published actual data on returns and the different level of income. The bottom pays way less %age wise than the top.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I rest my case
    no i rest my case.

    but if youd like to continue theres a certain section with no rules id be glad to point out your hypocrasy in.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the continued feeding of the poor does nothing for the country as a whole and merely creates more dependents by making failure comfortable.

    such funding should cease to include anyone other than those truly disabled or unable to help themselves and the rich who fund most of the government should stop funding parasites and their advocates who use our tax dollars to take more and more from us


    Are you saying you advocate a living wage for full time work as an alternative to welfare? I would agree with that.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Are you saying you advocate a living wage for full time work as an alternative to welfare? I would agree with that.
    False dichotomy to have to choose between the two.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    False dichotomy to have to choose between the two.
    What are the humane alternatives to working for a living or welfare?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What are the humane alternatives to working for a living or welfare?
    You and I don't have to decide what is "humane" as it concerns someone else whose life choices are up to him/her as to how to survive and thrive given his/her circumstances. There is no decision that we must make as to what options we present to this person. It's up to him/her how to get by and carve out a living somehow. The world has always been this way.

    We could abolish the minimum wage altogether and guarantee nothing legislatively as to the pay a person will receive for his/her labor, and that would be fine, because you know what? That person is 100% free to decide what his/her labor is worth, and/or what exactly s/he is willing to do in exchange for $x.xx amount of money. No oversight needed. It's between the people trading the money for labor and labor for money.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-27-12 at 03:01 AM.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    You and I don't have to decide what is "humane" as it concerns someone else whose life choices are up to him/her as to how to survive and thrive given his/her circumstances. There is no decision that we must make as to what options we present to this person. It's up to him/her how to get by and carve out a living somehow. The world has always been this way.

    We could abolish the minimum wage altogether and guarantee nothing legislatively as to the pay a person will receive for his/her labor, and that would be fine, because you know what? That person is 100% free to decide what his/her labor is worth, and/or what exactly s/he is willing to do in exchange for $x.xx amount of money. No oversight needed. It's between the people trading the money for labor and labor for money.
    As moral people, with the goal of our Constitution to promote the welfare of we the people, we most certainly do have to do what is humane in regards to our fellow citizens.
    And unless people are paid a living wage for full-time work, they have no option to escape state assistance. When we have more work with better pay, we have less people in need of assistance. This is not rocket science. You act like you have no knowledge of the history of labor laws in this country. Without labor laws, labor has always come up with the short end of the stick, as the management generally is most interested in their own bottom line, regardless of what it means for labor.
    Last edited by Catawba; 07-27-12 at 03:15 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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