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Thread: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

  1. #361
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I apologize for not realizing that you lived in an information vacuum.

    .....

    It is a break for the people with the money. Mostly inherited. Mostly Republicans with large smattering of genuine morons and trogolodytes.
    Damn, another irony meter busted.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    True but not the point. The point is that estate taxes are in fact a tax upon death, or in that tax avoidance area contemplation of death. So while I do not like the term death taxes, they are in estate taxes are in fact just that.

    As you know the truly wealthy have many ways to escape this tax at least for some generations who understand the need and have the resources to set up trusts with the help of the best lawyers and accountants. People like Buffett, who wants others to be taxed more has set up trusts to insure that most of his wealth is NEVER taxed, either estate or personal income taxes. He also makes sure his shareholders do not get doubletaxed and thus pays no dividend.

    So as usual the people who will get hit by this tax are people like farmers whose factory (their land) has appreciated greatly. I don't have the statistics but it is reasonable to assume that when high estate taxes are in place many family farms will have to be sold off.
    How many "family farms" are worth $10 million dollars? This is an argument that has been used against "death taxes" since the beginning of the debate and yet so far not one example of a forced farm sale has been found.
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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    If the GOP continue to refuse to compromise on taxes, I say let all the tax cuts expire then come back and renew the middle class tax cuts and dare the GOP to vote against middle class tax cuts.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    How many "family farms" are worth $10 million dollars? This is an argument that has been used against "death taxes" since the beginning of the debate and yet so far not one example of a forced farm sale has been found.
    Not to mention that this would only affect the $10m "family farm" where the family did a very poor job of estate planning. Most people use insurance instruments to provide funds to transition the estate, including paying the taxes. The $10M "family farm" is a strawman with no real world application.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If the GOP continue to refuse to compromise on taxes, I say let all the tax cuts expire then come back and renew the middle class tax cuts and dare the GOP to vote against middle class tax cuts.
    I think a deal will be made after the election, trading much of the Defense sequestration cuts for the tax breaks for the top bracket.

    Republicans are between the rock of defense cuts that they view as unpalatable and the tax pledge hard place. There is no doubt that Democrats would agree to a tax increase to offset the defense sequester, but would oppose any other alternative except, perhaps, putting off the entire sequester, including domestic spending cuts, for a year. Itís doubtful that the GOPís Tea Party wing would support that.

    Republicans are not yet ready to embrace a tax increase even to prevent defense cuts. But it is clear that they are ultimately going to have to choose one or the other.
    Will Defense Cuts Kill the Anti-Tax Pledge?

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I think a deal will be made after the election, trading much of the Defense sequestration cuts for the tax breaks for the top bracket.



    Will Defense Cuts Kill the Anti-Tax Pledge?

    That may be so if the Democrats are still in the mood to continue to try to compromise with the party of no, as they have for the last 3 and 1/2 years. I wouldn't, but I realize I am more progressive than half the Democrats, including the president.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused as usual. the top one percent are paying 40% of the taxes and the top 5% pay more of the fed taxes than the rest of the country combined. [...]
    Ah ha! More right wing propaganda... man, ya gotta keep an eye on these folks. They get caught so often that you'd think they'd give up, but nooooo . . . . .

    As the CBO chart shows below, the top 1% pay 22.3% of all federal tax liabilities (as of 2009, which I believe to be the latest figures available), not the 40% that the poster falsely claims. See the lower right figure with the yellow background. This includes all federal taxes, including FICA and the calculated individual share of corporate taxes.

    By adding the two lower right hand figures together, the top 1% plus the 96th thru 99th % (blue background), we find that the top 5% pay 39.6% of all federal tax liabilities (red background), not in excess of 50% as the poster falsely claims.

    This chart also lays to waste the right wing propaganda that some 47% pay no taxes at all. Even federal taxes (actually the right wants you to believe that they really pay no taxes... federal, state, local, nothing. and some do believe it).

    None of this includes state and local taxes, which would probably make the poster's claims even further in error.




    www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43373-Supplemental_Tables_Final.xls#2.%20Shares%20of%20F ederal%20Tax%20Liabil!A1 (XLS spreadsheet) (pre-1990 data redacted to save space)

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Ah ha! More right wing propaganda... man, ya gotta keep an eye on these folks.
    Wow you missed the whole point eh? Just look at the chart, look at the disbursment of who pays what percentage. The bulk weighs not on the shoulders of the middle class, as the left likes to proclaim.

    You really should quit trying to read things into numbers that aren't there and just view the data.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Wow you missed the whole point eh?
    No, I caught the lies quite well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Just look at the chart, look at the disbursment of who pays what percentage. The bulk weighs not on the shoulders of the middle class, as the left likes to proclaim.
    The nature of a progressive income tax means that the rich will pay more than the middle, while the bottom will pay just about none. That's the way the system is designed to work; that's the way it has worked since day one of the income tax. The question you should ask yourself is why is the right crying about it? Why are they using it for a basis of class warfare? Why are they exaggerating the effect in order to make people angry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    You really should quit trying to read things into numbers that aren't there and just view the data.
    The right really should quit making numbers up; it makes fools of them and debases their arguments. Every time they lie, and they do it serially, they only alienate the intelligent independents and a certain segment of the intelligent conservatives. Obviously their arguments are tailored for the unintelligent, and obviously they figure there are enough of those to swing an election.

    I would not bet that they are wrong.

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    Re: Obama to call for middle class tax cut extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    No, I caught the lies quite well.

    ....

    The question you should ask yourself is why is the right crying about it? Why are they using it for a basis of class warfare? Why are they exaggerating the effect in order to make people angry?
    Caught? Looks more like made up. But I realize that is hard for someone so far buried to notice in themselves.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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