Page 32 of 33 FirstFirst ... 2230313233 LastLast
Results 311 to 320 of 327

Thread: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

  1. #311
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    02-15-14 @ 04:49 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,939

    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Was referring to your time line:
    Interesting, but about when was it that you personally had in mind as being "the past" when claiming that There is actually more healthy food available than in the past? And since I'll be asking next in any case, what are these foods you believe are more healthy, and what leads you to believe that they are now more available?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    What the hell are you talking about? I was raised on the meat/entree based diet, or typical western diet, that we've been talking about. I gain weight very easily. But, I educated myself on what's healthy and what isn't, and I avoid weight gain by avoiding meat/dairy/chicken for the most part.
    If ALL you ate were meat, cheese, and chicken, you would not gain weight. Obviously, whatever works for you is fine for you, but this would be a tad out in left field as advice for others.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    We can start with your education. Some of those diets you refer to work by causing ketosis, an illness. Do you know that? Do you think that's a good solution for a weight problem?
    Yes, I am well aware of it, and ketosis is not an illness but a chemical state. Ketogenesis is the process of converting stored body fat to ketones that are then burned for energy rather than the carbohydrate-based glucose that would otherwise be available in the bloodstream if one were not on a low-carbohydrate diet. Short of liposuction, there simply is no better means of reducing stored body fat than ketogenesis, so yes, it is a very good solution to a weight problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Also, meat/dairy, etc is not required in the diet at all for a person to be healthy. You do know that, right?
    Yes, I would guess that I am quite a bit more conversant on this topic than what you seem to think. You will of course not get the same quality of protein from a vegan or vegetarian diet, and to allow your body to build the bank of complete proteins that it requires to maintain health, you will need to eat a range of veggie protein sources throughout the day. Veggie diets typically do provide plenty of fiber, vitamin C, and unsaturated fats, but the more strict the vegetarian limits become, the more you will have to worry about getting sufficient calcium, vitamins D and B-12, omega-3's, iron, and zinc. Supplements to reinforce those are often a good idea, but given all that, there is certainly no requirement that one must "eat meat or die".
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 07-16-12 at 09:15 AM.

  2. #312
    Sage
    Quag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Earth
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,023

    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Well, they haven't really invented any new fruits or vegetables over the past 20-30 years. It's pretty much the same choices as always. Marketing of them has changed to a degree as the local/home-grown/all-natural niche has come into being, but produce in general is still more than merely dominated by commodity-grade crops. As to availability, the home practice of "putting up" fresh fruits and veggies in season so as to have them available out of season goes back a very long way, and the year-round availability of quality frozen foods goes back to days when freezer compartments first became common in refrigerators. And of course the produce aisle accounts for just one section of a typical supermarket and of a typical American diet. Whatever good can be said about it, the quality of a cucumber has not increased sufficiently to offset the changes noted earlier in the sorts of industrial food that line the shelves of all those other aisles and make up the bulk of people's diets. Then there is the matter of meals away from home. Have those been increasing or decreasing and why, and of what are they typically comprised?


    You're simply generalizing from your particular personal habits and experiences, things that aren't material to the systemic, population-level situation with obesity at all. In my home for instance, there aren't any burritos, and those salads are one meal for one person. And they last at least a week in the fridge. And when we want some, we have no problem at all in finding summer or winter squash suitable for one meal for 1-2 persons. But all these granular detail simply vanish when you are talking about North or South Americans as a whole, or Europeans, or Asians, or Africans, or Oceanians, and that's the level that this particular blame-the-victim diversionary discussion arises at.


    Easy on the hyperbole. Even if you simply accept that a six-foot male is overweight at 184 pounds and obese at 221, being either overweight or obese in current terms is not associated with significant increases in health risks, certainly nothing that would approach a "we are killing ourselves" level, and just as certainly not a level that would make them relevant in any discussion of the necessity for health care reform. These problems are associated with the severely obese (258-294 pounds) and particularly the morbidly obese (295 pounds and up), as those names might suggest. Don't confuse the data for one group with the people in quite a different group and certainly not with people in general no matter where they live.
    No they haven't invented new fruits but they are importing ones that they never imported before and others are available year round when they were seasona.lThe choices have increased dramatically. I think you are missing the point, you said there was less available than before, when there is more. The freezing/pickling etc of fruits has been done for a long time but people seem to do it less now. Partially due to availability of produce year round, as opposed to seasonally and partially because it is less time consuming to just buy something than go through the trouble of pickling/canning freezing etc. Yes there is more much more premade foods available but that doesnt mean the other stuff is less available.

    I don't have frozen burritos in my house either it was just an example. My point remains that to prepare a meal yourself takes more time than just nuking a premade one. That is true no matter how you look at it. Also the frozen stuff lasts longer than fresh produce in the fridge. Fact is our society HAS changed. you have more single parent families or families with both parents workign than before. Now parent gets hoem from work picks up kids than has 30 mins to get them out again to soccer or ballet or whatever. Yeah some could possibly premake stuff for supper but that frozen burrito really makes life easier. it is not trying to shift blame onto anyone. A frozen burrito is not gonna make people fat on occasion. Life has changed and we have changed our habits, for good or bad, When I was young there was no video games/internet etc. Again in themselves not bad, but can you deny that north americans get less exercise than before? the proliferation of gyms and home exercise kits are a good indication of this. People don't necessarily want ot be out of shape but our daily lives have less inherent physical activity (in general) than they used ot have.

    Sorry for the hyperbole and I do not accept plain hight/weight charts for physical fitness, some world class atheletes would be on the wrong side of those charts. I myself am off those charts (though I could lose a few pounds now) when I was 18 I was bordering on obscenly obese and biking 3-6 hrs 4-6X a week playing soccer 3X a week and rugby 3X a week. My body fat was about as low as you are gonna find, I just happen to have an extremly stocky frame.
    It all goes back to you extrapolating from my pointing out to you that junk food has not replaced nutritous food. It hasn't there is more nutritious food available than ever before, more variety and no longer seasonal. there also happens to be more junk food available as well. it is not the lack of available nutritous food that is the problem, that is just a red herring. The reasons for the "obescity epidemic" are myriad but the unavailability of nutritous food is not one of them.
    Last edited by Quag; 07-16-12 at 11:48 AM.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

  3. #313
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    02-15-14 @ 04:49 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,939

    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    No they haven't invented new fruits but they are importing ones that they never imported before and others are available year round when they were seasonal.
    That's wonderful, but you are still focused on perhaps overstated claims about the availability and healthfulness of produce. The original post was not limited in this way and contemplated the entire range of increasingly hollow calories found in the rest of the grocery store as well as in the rest of the food chain. The "western diet" after all is made up of more than just what is sometimes called rabbit food.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    I think you are missing the point, you said there was less available than before, when there is more.
    What I said was this...The whole world is getting fatter, and a principal reason for that is the spread of the "western diet", characterized as it is by the highly refined, nutrient-hollow, oversalted, fat- and calorie-laden foodstuffs produced and promoted by a giant, for-profit, agribusiness industry. Consumers can only buy what is available on the shelves, and that ain't what it used to be. Some seem to have embroidered their own personal spin for that, one not attributable to the original author.

  4. #314
    Sage
    Quag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Earth
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,023

    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    That's wonderful, but you are still focused on perhaps overstated claims about the availability and healthfulness of produce. The original post was not limited in this way and contemplated the entire range of increasingly hollow calories found in the rest of the grocery store as well as in the rest of the food chain. The "western diet" after all is made up of more than just what is sometimes called rabbit food.


    What I said was this...The whole world is getting fatter, and a principal reason for that is the spread of the "western diet", characterized as it is by the highly refined, nutrient-hollow, oversalted, fat- and calorie-laden foodstuffs produced and promoted by a giant, for-profit, agribusiness industry. Consumers can only buy what is available on the shelves, and that ain't what it used to be. Some seem to have embroidered their own personal spin for that, one not attributable to the original author.
    1. Fair enough, but you claimed there was less nutritious food. All this back and forth is based solely on my trying to point out there is more, not less.
    2. Agree with you except bolded part. You are trying to make the lack of nutritous food argument again. Patently untrue there is more selection of both nutritous and junk fodo today than in the past. Stop trying to make this about access to nutritous food it has nothing to do with the problem.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

  5. #315
    Steve
    tryreading's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Last Seen
    02-26-13 @ 07:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    4,809

    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Interesting, but about when was it that you personally had in mind as being "the past" when claiming that There is actually more healthy food available than in the past? And since I'll be asking next in any case, what are these foods you believe are more healthy, and what leads you to believe that they are now more available?


    If ALL you ate were meat, cheese, and chicken, you would not gain weight. Obviously, whatever works for you is fine for you, but this would be a tad out in left field as advice for others.


    Yes, I am well aware of it, and ketosis is not an illness but a chemical state. Ketogenesis is the process of converting stored body fat to ketones that are then burned for energy rather than the carbohydrate-based glucose that would otherwise be available in the bloodstream if one were not on a low-carbohydrate diet. Short of liposuction, there simply is no better means of reducing stored body fat than ketogenesis, so yes, it is a very good solution to a weight problem.


    Yes, I would guess that I am quite a bit more conversant on this topic than what you seem to think. You will of course not get the same quality of protein from a vegan or vegetarian diet, and to allow your body to build the bank of complete proteins that it requires to maintain health, you will need to eat a range of veggie protein sources throughout the day. Veggie diets typically do provide plenty of fiber, vitamin C, and unsaturated fats, but the more strict the vegetarian limits become, the more you will have to worry about getting sufficient calcium, vitamins D and B-12, omega-3's, iron, and zinc. Supplements to reinforce those are often a good idea, but given all that, there is certainly no requirement that one must "eat meat or die".
    Quag already answered most of this. I'll just respond to the last paragraph where you mention something about getting sufficient nutrients from a vegetarian diet. The odds are that an American today has about a 50/50 chance of dying of heart disease. I don't know of massive numbers of vegetarians dying due to the food they eat, or even becoming sick from it. Not only is it unnecessary to include meat/dairy/chicken/fish in the diet, but the average American would live longer and be a lot healthier without it.

    One other thing, you're right about ketosis, its a condition, not really a disease. I think of it as an illness, though, because it occurs during starvation. Course, the Atkins people and others have managed to make a lot of money off of it, because they call it a diet.
    Do not write in this space!

  6. #316
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    02-15-14 @ 04:49 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,939

    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Quag already answered most of this.
    Quag is competent to post on Quag's behalf. Not yours. That would be your job, but in this case at least, you don't want it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    I'll just respond to the last paragraph where you mention something about getting sufficient nutrients from a vegetarian diet. The odds are that an American today has about a 50/50 chance of dying of heart disease. I don't know of massive numbers of vegetarians dying due to the food they eat, or even becoming sick from it.
    I guess you can just ignore all those tainted spinach, lettuce, peanut, and salad bar scares. Otherwise, your 50-50 data are not so good. Cancers plus suicides took more lives than heart disease in 2010 with quite a lot of other causes left over. Eating more fruits and vegetables will indeed lower one's risk of developing heart disease regardless of what else one eats. It won't however reduce your chances of dying from other causes. Semi-vegetarians who eat fish and dairy products but meat less than once a week do not fare quite as well as fanatics, but signifcantly better than regular meat-eaters.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Not only is it unnecessary to include meat/dairy/chicken/fish in the diet, but the average American would live longer and be a lot healthier without it.
    Spoken like a true fanatic.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    One other thing, you're right about ketosis, its a condition, not really a disease. I think of it as an illness, though, because it occurs during starvation. Course, the Atkins people and others have managed to make a lot of money off of it, because they call it a diet.
    Atkins is dead and most of his one-time empire with him. But his dietary plan relied on ketogenesis only during the initial weight loss period. On reaching a healthy target wieght, he advised adjustment to a maintenance diet something like what was later popularized as the Mediterranean Diet.

  7. #317
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    What would be evil about someone deciding to change citizenship? I don't understand what the raging is about? Hating everyone who isn't an American citizen?

    If a person wants to change citizenship, it's no big deal. I don't see ANY reason that person should be treated an different than any other non-American.

  8. #318
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Sometimes I don't know who is dumber... the average American or the average tree stump.


    In other words, you're a white liberal Democrat.

  9. #319
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    In other words, you're a white liberal Democrat.
    Actually, he's not white...
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #320
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Actually, he's not white...

    If I remember correctly, he stated that he is of mixed racial ancestry which he claims includes some African-American ancestry.

Page 32 of 33 FirstFirst ... 2230313233 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •