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Thread: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

  1. #291
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    What victim? Who puts that extra Big Burger in your hand? Who puts those drugs between your lips or in your arm? Those are personal choices by the "victim". So the victim needs to look in the mirror and they'll see who is making them the "victim".
    Take a look around. This recently invented obesity meme is a fraud. The whole world is getting fatter, and a principal reason for that is the spread of the "western diet", characterized as it is by the highly refined, nutrient-hollow, oversalted, fat- and calorie-laden foodstuffs produced and promoted by a giant, for-profit, agribusiness industry. Consumers can only buy what is available on the shelves, and that ain't what it used to be.

    As for drugs, the ones that do by far the most damage are the ones mis-prescribed and mal-administered by an out of control, for-profit health care system. Drugs of choice -- including anabolic steroids, by the way -- do no harm at all in comparison.

    Part of the job of the propagandists hired by the people who make all the profits from these profit-driven systems is to come up with phony reasons to blame the people being hurt by them for their own injuries. Rapists used to try that sort of blame-the-victim thing back in the day, but we don't let them get way with that anymore. Some people need to make the same kind of progress in a few other areas.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Take a look around. This recently invented obesity meme is a fraud. The whole world is getting fatter, and a principal reason for that is the spread of the "western diet", characterized as it is by the highly refined, nutrient-hollow, oversalted, fat- and calorie-laden foodstuffs produced and promoted by a giant, for-profit, agribusiness industry. Consumers can only buy what is available on the shelves, and that ain't what it used to be.

    As for drugs, the ones that do by far the most damage are the ones mis-prescribed and mal-administered by an out of control, for-profit health care system. Drugs of choice -- including anabolic steroids, by the way -- do no harm at all in comparison.

    Part of the job of the propagandists hired by the people who make all the profits from these profit-driven systems is to come up with phony reasons to blame the people being hurt by them for their own injuries. Rapists used to try that sort of blame-the-victim thing back in the day, but we don't let them get way with that anymore. Some people need to make the same kind of progress in a few other areas.


    Here's a plan for over-eaters. Stop eating fatting food. The fastest and best way to lose weight and EVERYONE KNOWS THIS AS A FACT.

  3. #293
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Take a look around. This recently invented obesity meme is a fraud. The whole world is getting fatter, and a principal reason for that is the spread of the "western diet", characterized as it is by the highly refined, nutrient-hollow, oversalted, fat- and calorie-laden foodstuffs produced and promoted by a giant, for-profit, agribusiness industry. Consumers can only buy what is available on the shelves, and that ain't what it used to be.

    As for drugs, the ones that do by far the most damage are the ones mis-prescribed and mal-administered by an out of control, for-profit health care system. Drugs of choice -- including anabolic steroids, by the way -- do no harm at all in comparison.

    Part of the job of the propagandists hired by the people who make all the profits from these profit-driven systems is to come up with phony reasons to blame the people being hurt by them for their own injuries. Rapists used to try that sort of blame-the-victim thing back in the day, but we don't let them get way with that anymore. Some people need to make the same kind of progress in a few other areas.
    Actually the good stuff is still available it just has to be prepared and cooked, the junk food is just nuked and eaten, being lazy/impatient most people go for the quick to eat stuff. I still make my own bread on occasion, cause I like how it makes the whole place smell good and freash bread is better than anything you'll get out of the supermarket, but it takes about 2hrs to make (yeah lots of sitting around waiting for dough to rise, but still 2hrs) Made cinnamon rolls the other day with my daughter for the 1st time (yeah kinda junk food as well) took 2hrs as opposed to 15 mins for the ready to bake stuff, but all natural ingredients. Would I do that all the time? nope too busy but I do on occasion. I know many people who have no clue how to cook/bake only how to microwave or place in oven. It really is more a question of ease and convience than lack of access.

    Drugs are always a problem area I don't see any way that's gonna get better anytime soon.
    Blame the victim will always be used, it is a tactic not a "good" one but occasionally effective and often the only one available, when the choice is admit guilt or blame another what do you think is gonna happen?
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Wonderful! I've stated my position with as much knowledge as anyone else has on this monstrosity of a bill.
    No, you rather clearly haven't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    But evidently you took Nancy Pelosi's advice and read the WHOLE thing, after it was passed...
    See, what Pelosi was talking about was the wild-eyed screamers of the right-wing creating such an astroturfed din over imaginary socialism, death panels, and government takeovers, that there was no room left for a calm and rational debate or discussion of what was actually in the bill. I guess you missed that along with so much else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    ...and thus have more info to refute. Let's hear, from your indepth knowledge, how do we pay for the EXTRAS, i.e., doctors, nurses, hospitals, techs, more and new medicines, equipment, etc.
    Do you know what drug and medical device manufacturers agreed to in signing up to support the bill? Doctors and hospitals? Other stakeholders? It doesn't seem so. Do you know about how much annual revenue up to 30 million new insurance policies will bring to the system? Can you estimate the savings that will come from so many fewer people being forced to rely on 911 and the ER as their primary health care plan? It doesn't appear that even these concepts, much less the numbers associated with them, have ever entered your thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    I'll tell you who I think is going to pay via a NEW AND IMPROVED TAX - the MIDDLE CLASS. I don't want to break that glowing bubble of the "rich can pick up the tab", but they can't.
    The rich are already helping out, what with that new 3.8% Medicare surcharge on uneaned income and raising the Schedule-A floor for medical expenses from 7.5% to 10%. And what with all the money they've been siphoning off for themselves since 2000 or so, there is still plenty more that they can and will be asked to do.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    No, you rather clearly haven't.


    See, what Pelosi was talking about was the wild-eyed screamers of the right-wing creating such an astroturfed din over imaginary socialism, death panels, and government takeovers, that there was no room left for a calm and rational debate or discussion of what was actually in the bill. I guess you missed that along with so much else.


    Do you know what drug and medical device manufacturers agreed to in signing up to support the bill? Doctors and hospitals? Other stakeholders? It doesn't seem so. Do you know about how much annual revenue up to 30 million new insurance policies will bring to the system? Can you estimate the savings that will come from so many fewer people being forced to rely on 911 and the ER as their primary health care plan? It doesn't appear that even these concepts, much less the numbers associated with them, have ever entered your thinking.


    The rich are already helping out, what with that new 3.8% Medicare surcharge on uneaned income and raising the Schedule-A floor for medical expenses from 7.5% to 10%. And what with all the money they've been siphoning off for themselves since 2000 or so, there is still plenty more that they can and will be asked to do.


    We will all foot the bill. It's a TAX.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Dude, the middle class will pick up the tab. I realize that "printing money" sounds like a good plan, but eventually you've gotta pay your bills or what happens?
    Come on. We've been carrying significant public debt since 1836. We have added to it significantly during times of national crisis and whenever someone named Reagan or Bush was President. The notion of one day having to pay off your bills is household-level thinking. It is not applicable at the level of national governments. Neither we nor anybody else has any plan ever to do anything but service the national debt. We will never repay it. It's as simple as that.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Here's a plan for over-eaters. Stop eating fatting food. The fastest and best way to lose weight and EVERYONE KNOWS THIS AS A FACT.
    Your credentials as a nutritionist aren't any better than those as an historian or economist. The problem -- rather plainly -- isn't about weight-loss at all, but about how to avoid weight-gain in a world increasingly dominated by foods that promote and over time guaranty weight-gain.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Your credentials as a nutritionist aren't any better than those as an historian or economist. The problem -- rather plainly -- isn't about weight-loss at all, but about how to avoid weight-gain in a world increasingly dominated by foods that promote and over time guaranty weight-gain.
    Didn't claim to any credentials. Just know that all the fat folks walking around don't have medical conditions. They just plain old eat fatty foods. The way to cure that "problem" is to stop eating fatty foods. I guess that is confusing because it is such a simple solution. But there are times when simplicity is really the way to go.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Actually the good stuff is still available it just has to be prepared and cooked, the junk food is just nuked and eaten, being lazy/impatient most people go for the quick to eat stuff. I still make my own bread on occasion, cause I like how it makes the whole place smell good and freash bread is better than anything you'll get out of the supermarket, but it takes about 2hrs to make (yeah lots of sitting around waiting for dough to rise, but still 2hrs) Made cinnamon rolls the other day with my daughter for the 1st time (yeah kinda junk food as well) took 2hrs as opposed to 15 mins for the ready to bake stuff, but all natural ingredients. Would I do that all the time? nope too busy but I do on occasion. I know many people who have no clue how to cook/bake only how to microwave or place in oven. It really is more a question of ease and convience than lack of access.
    So even with a luxury of time that most people simply don't have available, you are able to prepare perhaps 5% (?) of the sometimes fattening anyway foods that you eat from scratch using all these wholesome natural ingredients? That's all well and good, but it doesn't really get you off the train.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Blame the victim will always be used, it is a tactic not a "good" one but occasionally effective and often the only one available, when the choice is admit guilt or blame another...
    Hmmm. Avoidance by some of self-criticism implied under reality-based thinking, then.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    We will all foot the bill. It's a TAX.
    It's a long overdue reform of a crippled and increasingly dysfunctional system, a reform that includes new taxes, new tax credits, and new subsidies, but which is a priori deficit-neutral, thereby not adding to net taxes or to the net need for taxes.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 07-15-12 at 11:56 AM.

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