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Thread: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    It's just the "blame the victim" ploy all over again. So pathetic...
    Pointing a finger of blame is much easier than treating complex medical conditions, and it has the additional benefit of making the nanny-staters feel morally superior
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Good post. By far the largest factor in poor health in the U.S. is obesity (increasing) and the direct medical problems that it leads to, heart disease, hypertension and diabeties, next is smoking (decreasing) and drug abuse (including alcohol - increasing). These, as you say, are NOT medical problems, but lifestyle/behavior issues that are beyond the scope of the PPACA, in fact, it mandates that ONLY age and smoking may even be considered for setting medical care insurance premium costs. That is insane, as this was a perfect oppotunity to INCREASE the up front costs of these bad behaviors, amplifying the effects of the existing "sin taxes" on alcohol and tobacco.
    The problem is that while social and cultural or just a matter of liberty is the instigator, the fact is that the result ends up a healthcare issue. I am all for educating people the dangers and pitfalls of obesity and drinking alcohol/drugs. Or other high risk activities but I will never endorse the hedging of freedoms and liberty in the form of restrictive laws aimed at curbing high risk activities. Because the ends do not warrant the methods. I mean sure limit people from consuming alcohol (I dont drink so why should I care?) well then whats next? Dangerous sports? Perhaps any activity that is not good for the back? All this control to keep premiums down seems like a bad idea. Which is why I was saying that insurance is not a solution at all for the healthcare debate. Seems silly that a private service (insurance) really achieves that same as a communist state does. Health care is so important that people are willing to submit themselves to a dictatorship whether it be the state or the private sector either way we lose.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Do you perhaps have some actual analysis to support this cock-crowing proclamation of yours?

    "Cock-crowing". I love it!

    History.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post

    That's the issue that has to be faced. Obomneycare may help people get health insurance but it isn't helping with the core issue: costs.

    And "costs", IMO are going to go up-up-up for MORE services, people, equipment, medicine/medical R&D, and everything else that goes in the the medical system. And the govt is broke. We're living on IOUs now and when that happens guess who pays the bills? Yup the Middle Class.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    It's just the "blame the victim" ploy all over again. So pathetic...

    What victim? Who puts that extra Big Burger in your hand? Who puts those drugs between your lips or in your arm? Those are personal choices by the "victim". So the victim needs to look in the mirror and they'll see who is making them the "victim".

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I am all for educating people the dangers and pitfalls of obesity and drinking alcohol/drugs. Or other high risk activities but I will never endorse the hedging of freedoms and liberty in the form of restrictive laws aimed at curbing high risk activities.
    No one is entitled to absolute freedom and liberty. The farthest that the most extreme yet still sane will take this notion is to the edges of a concept of ordered liberty. Pointing out that it is possible to err in one extreme is not an argument for remaining at the other.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    "Cock-crowing". I love it! History.
    The cock crows as confidently at dawn, and with just about the same degree of reasoning behind it. Typing the word "history" is meanwhile an example of chicken-scratching. Your resort to it I will take as a concession that no, there was no actual analysis at all underlying your original claim.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    The cock crows as confidently at dawn, and with just about the same degree of reasoning behind it. Typing the word "history" is meanwhile an example of chicken-scratching. Your resort to it I will take as a concession that no, there was no actual analysis at all underlying your original claim.

    Wonderful!

    I've stated my position with as much knowledge as anyone else has on this monstrosity of a bill. But evidently you took Nancy Pelosi's advice and read the WHOLE thing, after it was passed, and thus have more info to refute. Let's hear, from your indepth knowledge, how do we pay for the EXTRAS, i.e., doctors, nurses, hospitals, techs, more and new medicines, equipment, etc.

    I'll tell you who I think is going to pay via a NEW AND IMPROVED TAX - the MIDDLE CLASS. I don't want to break that glowing bubble of the "rich can pick up the tab", but they can't.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    And "costs", IMO are going to go up-up-up for MORE services, people, equipment, medicine/medical R&D, and everything else that goes in the the medical system.
    One of the chief reasons to flee to the haven of health care reform is that costs without such reform have been increasing uncontrolably and will simply continue to do. It is the ALTERNATIVE to health care reform that is characterized by wildly soaring costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    And the govt is broke.
    Currency-issuing authorities can't go broke, and PPACA was better than deficit-neutral in any case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    We're living on IOUs now and when that happens guess who pays the bills? Yup the Middle Class.
    Dude, when the US buys more from foreign economies than they buy from us, a pile of US dollars moves into the international economy. Foreigners can use those dollars to buy stuff from the US or from other economies that take US dollars in payment, but at the end of the day, that trade deficit means that there are dollars still out there that people don't have an alternate use for. So they come crawling to the US Treasury, begging to invest in our securities and hoping to be paid a little bit of interest for it over time. The idea that the US is somehow "living on IOU's" is a notion that is totally divorced from reality.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    One of the chief reasons to flee to the haven of health care reform is that costs without such reform have been increasing uncontrolably and will simply continue to do. It is the ALTERNATIVE to health care reform that is characterized by wildly soaring costs.


    Currency-issuing authorities can't go broke, and PPACA was better than deficit-neutral in any case.


    Dude, when the US buys more from foreign economies than they buy from us, a pile of US dollars moves into the international economy. Foreigners can use those dollars to buy stuff from the US or from other economies that take US dollars in payment, but at the end of the day, that trade deficit means that there are dollars still out there that people don't have an alternate use for. So they come crawling to the US Treasury, begging to invest in our securities and hoping to be paid a little bit of interest for it over time. The idea that the US is somehow "living on IOU's" is a notion that is totally divorced from reality.


    Dude, the middle class will pick up the tab. I realize that "printing money" sounds like a good plan, but eventually you've gotta pay your bills or what happens?

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