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Thread: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

  1. #271
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    The only way we can afford to add 30 Million more people to the HC system is to TAX the middle class.
    Correction - the only way YOU CAN THINK OF is to increase taxes. Some of us are more creative

    Reduce health care costs by

    1) reducing the use of emergency rooms for non-emergency problems
    2) prevention
    3) reduce govt subsidies to health insurance corps
    4) increased use of technology to increase productivity in health care
    5) changing the patent laws concerning pharmaceuticals
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #272
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Correction - the only way YOU CAN THINK OF is to increase taxes. Some of us are more creative

    Reduce health care costs by

    1) reducing the use of emergency rooms for non-emergency problems
    2) prevention
    3) reduce govt subsidies to health insurance corps
    4) increased use of technology to increase productivity in health care
    5) changing the patent laws concerning pharmaceuticals

    Good for you. But I'm not buying into the fantasy. We will see a TAX increase to pay for this bill.

  3. #273
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Good for you. But I'm not buying into the fantasy. We will see a TAX increase to pay for this bill.
    In the US, no one is required to accept reality
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    In the US, no one is required to accept reality
    I can tell that by your post.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Like obesity and alcoholism, mortality rates, cancer rates, etc and racial disparities in health care are health care issues. If we are handling these issues poorly, then that's a deficiency in our health care system.
    Yeah, people try to blame our sad-sack numbers on all the diversity and minorities around here. As if they don't understand that these people are way overrepresented among the unemployed and therefore among the uninsured, meaning that they don't have and can't afford access to even minimal standards of care. That's a freaking problem with the system, not with these people.

    If you wanted to use just one statistic to sum up how bad the US health care system actually is, it would be the fact that for years we have been the worst rated developed country in terms of amenable deaths. Those are deaths that we know how to prevent. It's not a mystery. All that's necessary is that the patient receive the appropriate care in a timely manner. We can't seem to manage that.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Say whatever you want, but the other shoe, a.k.a TAX, is going to come down and come down hard. It can't work without the MIDDLE CLASS being TAXed
    ED.
    Do you perhaps have some actual analysis to support this cock-crowing proclamation of yours?

  7. #277
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    This was obvious, just like Canada. They just don't have the numbers like the US.
    Of course Canada and Taiwan are going to spend a whole lot less than the USA overall. How does a smaller population translate into lower cost per capita or as a percentage of GDP?

    The US is way ahead in terms of amount spent per capita. Look at the contrast between the US and Japan, for example:

    The United States spent nearly $8,000 per person in 2009 on health care services, more than Australia, Britain, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden or Switzerland.

    Japan spent the least — $2,878 per capita in 2008 — according to the report by The Commonwealth Fund, a private foundation that promotes improved health care in the United States.
    Source: Raw Story (U.S. health care spending highest, Japan lowest: study | The Raw Story)

    That's the issue that has to be faced. Obomneycare may help people get health insurance but it isn't helping with the core issue: costs.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  8. #278
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I didnt take it as a challenge. But considering your comment and my lack of commentary I thought I should clarify myself, or at least try to add some relevance.

    Obesity and alcoholism while they lead to major health issues, become difficult for any healthcare system to deal with. The reason being is that a certain amount of liberty allows for obesity and alcoholism to exist. And also considering that both are diverse compounded issues that also can involve the judicial system and genetics and perhaps even social/cultural, it becomes even more difficult to truly say that they are both healthcare issues. Not saying though that education could not be upped.

    As far as different death rates and disease rates between the races, I would need to research more to understand whether it is racial discrimination or genetics that have caused the differences. Most likely though I can guess that its between both. Either way improvements are warranted.

    Homicides, poor diet, and lack of exercise again are compounded issues. Social and cultural elements can be a big influence, again education is probably all that is really going to be effective in battling such things. Although metal disorders can be addressed by the healthcare system. Personally I think that the entire world lacks sufficient mental health care. I say that because of the different trends that become popular and that many different people have conflicting ideas in what works. The problem though is actually that most people would refuse any psychiatric help, because of the stigma of seeing a shrink implies. Im not crazy. Perhaps not, but there maybe some physical reason why you are so angry or why you eat five happy meals a day.

    But the biggest difficulty that i see with improving our healthcare system is partisan politics. One side says this the other side says this, but neither realize that they are both the problem with our healthcare system. The healthcare system debate has become a whipping post for the Republican's and Democrat's to push out their chests and declare that their ideology is the most moral and ethical thing in the world. In reality one side wants us to mimic so so healthcare systems while the other wishes to just continue as we were. Obliviously we need some fresh innovative ideas, unfortunately I dont really have any. But that doesnt mean that through discussions like this one that we cannot come up with any new fresh innovative ideas.
    Good post. By far the largest factor in poor health in the U.S. is obesity (increasing) and the direct medical problems that it leads to, heart disease, hypertension and diabeties, next is smoking (decreasing) and drug abuse (including alcohol - increasing). These, as you say, are NOT medical problems, but lifestyle/behavior issues that are beyond the scope of the PPACA, in fact, it mandates that ONLY age and smoking may even be considered for setting medical care insurance premium costs. That is insane, as this was a perfect oppotunity to INCREASE the up front costs of these bad behaviors, amplifying the effects of the existing "sin taxes" on alcohol and tobacco.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-14-12 at 11:02 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #279
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Good post. By far the largest factor in poor health in the U.S. is obesity (increasing) and the direct medical problems that it leads to, heart disease, hypertension and diabeties, next is smoking (decreasing) and drug abuse (including alcohol - increasing). These, as you say, are NOT medical problems, but lifestyle/behavior issues that are beyond the scope of the PPACA, in fact, it mandates ONLY age and smoking be considered now for assigning medical care insurance premium costs. That is insane, as this was a perfect oppotunity to INCREASE the up front costs of these bad behaviors, amplifying the effects of the existing "sin taxes" on alcohol and tobacco.
    Saying that obesity and drug abuse are not health care issues is definitely the most disingenous thing anyone has said in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #280
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Saying that obesity and drug abuse are not health care issues is definitely the most disingenous thing anyone has said in this thread.
    It's just the "blame the victim" ploy all over again. So pathetic...

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