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Thread: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What declining public schools?

    Where is your verifiable evidence of this as some sort of a national problem?

    What are you talking about - America as uneducated people?

    You paint a doom and gloom picture but you are using pastel chalks on a sidewalk that can be easily washed off with a light hosing of water because they do not stand up to scrutiny.
    Are you being disingenuous? Have you heard of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development? It's generally referred to as the OECD. Are you familiar with it? The OECD created PISA. Do you know what PISA is? It ranks students by country in math, science, reading and writing. That's how we know how American students measure up to their foreign peers. Take a look at this:

    The U.S. ranks 23rd in PISA science score Ranking America


    Here's something else that you may find interesting:


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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So isn't it about time we at least stop digging the hole deeper?
    I think your side should have sought peace when it had the chance. The hole is a grave. Your side dug it.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Are you being disingenuous? Have you heard of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development? It's generally referred to as the OECD. Are you familiar with it? The OECD created PISA. Do you know what PISA is? It ranks students by country in math, science, reading and writing. That's how we know how American students measure up to their foreign peers. ]
    None of what you said or linked to says one verifiable thing showing that American education is on the decline.

    Allow me to help you with the methodology.

    1 - start with the past where you believe American education did a great or good job. Lets get those measurements.
    2- Present data from today in American schools which show a decline
    3 - if all the variables and other things which impact results have remained constant - then you may have a point.

    I saw the SUPERMAN movies. I thought Chris Reeve was quite good.
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    Post Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    I think your side should have sought peace when it had the chance. The hole is a grave. Your side dug it.
    WOW!!!! earlier you said that both sides were responsible. Suddenly, when painted into a corner, you resort to "you did it you did it you did it".

    You very move from this faux above it all viewpoint to that of an extremist right wing shrieking partisan.

    Your reply says nothing about what you cite as the problem. Don't you think its about time we STOP sending jobs overseas since you condemn that process and cite it as a cause of what you see as a major problem in America today?
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-03-12 at 02:28 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Actually my legal advisor is working on it at this point, trying to iron out some of the issues. Hopefully by the first of August something will be in place to get me the hell out of here.
    Bon voyage! We are excited about your departure! Iran will welcome you with open arms, at least until they find out about your medical disabilities. But hey, you will like their socialized health care there I bet!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    WOW!!!! earlier you said that both sides were responsible. Suddenly, when painted into a corner, you resort to "you did it you did it you did it".

    You very move from this faux above it all viewpoint to that of an extremist right wing shrieking partisan.

    Your reply says nothing about what you cite as the problem. Don't you think its about time we STOP sending jobs overseas since you condemn that process and cite it as a cause of what you see as a major problem in America today?
    Hay, I'm a fierce partisan just like you are. But we can still talk with each other. Most of my friends are leftists, and we rarely agree. But we still talk.

    I am interested in your opinion from an intellectual standpoint. But I will never cooperate with you under any circumstances because I don't believe your side acts in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate with people who don't act in good faith.

    You refuse to acknowledge the international organization called OECD which measure the respective rankings of students in different countries. This is an unreasonable position because even the US Secretary of Education under Obama recognizes the validity of OECD's PISA rankings.

    Btw, President Obama is getting ready to attack Iran. Did you see the news today. He's a very foolish man.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Hay, I'm a fierce partisan just like you are. But we can still talk with each other. Most of my friends are leftists, and we rarely agree. But we still talk.

    I am interested in your opinion from an intellectual standpoint. But I will never cooperate with you under any circumstances because I don't believe your side acts in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate with people who don't act in good faith.

    You refuse to acknowledge the international organization called OECD which measure the respective rankings of students in different countries. This is an unreasonable position because even the US Secretary of Education under Obama recognizes the validity of OECD's PISA rankings.

    Btw, President Obama is getting ready to attack Iran. Did you see the news today. He's a very foolish man.
    You made a claim: that education in the USA was in a decline. There is only one way you can offer verifiable proof for that and that has been explained to you.

    You first must establish a benchmark or measurable level for education in the USA from some previous year or era. Then you must identify a current year in which there is a measurable decline. And if all other variables and constants are the same, you may have a point.

    So lets see it please.
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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You made a claim: that education in the USA was in a decline. There is only one way you can offer verifiable proof for that and that has been explained to you.

    You first must establish a benchmark or measurable level for education in the USA from some previous year or era. Then you must identify a current year in which there is a measurable decline. And if all other variables and constants are the same, you may have a point.

    So lets see it please.
    I think you have a point. So I am going to rephrase this. US students don't compare well with their foreign peers under the PISA rankings of the OECD. This will have real life consequences in terms of the development of human capital in the US. Thanks.

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    I think you have a point. So I am going to rephrase this. US students don't compare well with their foreign peers under the PISA rankings of the OECD. This will have real life consequences in terms of the development of human capital in the US. Thanks.
    Thank you.

    One reason US kids often do not score as well as others is that there is no United States system of education. Japan has one. Germany has one. The USA simply does not have one.

    So the question becomes one of if you are really comparing apples to apples.
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-03-12 at 10:38 PM.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thank you.

    One reason US kids often do not score as well as others is that there is no United States system of education. Japan has one. Germany has one. The USA simply does not have one.

    So the question becomes one of if you are really comparing apples to apples.
    The US Dept. of Education sets standards and hands out money to state education depts. State depts. of education in turn hand out money to County Offices of Education or Local School Districts. That constitutes some form of school system. Like No Child Left Behind, or the Obama program Race to the Bottom. jk.

    The fact is that math and science are universal. American kids don't to well on the PISA rankings, and they don't accumulate sufficient knowledge to compete with kids in Shanghai or the rest of the Sinosphere.

    Kids today don't know history. That's been true for two generations now. Who on this board younger than forty knows anything about history. They can't even challenge an old man with short term memory loss. That's really a pathetic state of affairs.

    I acknowledge part of this is cultural...but the political culture of this country requires that full blame be laid at the feet of teachers and their unions. That's the way the game is played. Parents are not going to blame themselves. They are going to look for a scapegoat. That's where the teachers and their unions come in. And the teachers bear great responsibility.

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