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Bloody terrorists killed 8 Turkish soldiers

donsutherland1 said:
PKK is a terrorist organization that has targeted civilians in the past. I strongly support Turkey in its fight against the PKK terrorist organization, I also strongly support its desire to preserve its territorial integrity against the demands of groups dedicated to carving it into ethnic statelets. Turkey's fragmentation would not be a stabilizing development. If anything, such an outcome could give new impulse to the many other sectarian movements that exist in an area running from southern Europe to Central Asia. The likely end result would be more bloodshed and more repression.

Despite my strong differences on certain aspects of Turkey's foreign policy (e.g., its increasing pro-Palestinian tilt), I recognize that the government is overall a moderate one. Turkey's citizens have good opportunity to live their lives in freedom and dignity. They also enjoy the basic freedom to choose their government. Not all of Turkey's neighbors can make similar claims.
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Not moderate when it comes to Kurds. The Turkish government has committed war crimes against those people. Kurds will one day have a homeland.
 
washunut said:
Those are terrorist attacks. The one in this thread seems to be army versus army. I see that as different, sorry.
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now ,i can only call those monsters terorists when they attack civillians ,they are innocent!!!
 
Connery said:
It does not appear that PKK wants issues regarding the Kurdish minority to be resolved as there seem to be ongoing discussions. The talks should continue despite the PKK efforts to dismantle these efforts. Iran has provided a safe haven for these terrorists and that border should be under more scrutiny. The path to peace and a cohesive plan in not through weapons, but, discussion. PKK is on foll's mission.

Moreover, the PKK are terrorists and do target civilians:

"The terrorist Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) has continued with its campaign of kidnapping civilians and on Friday Tunceli Deputy Governor Ali Güldoğan told the press that a group of PKK terrorist stopped a vehicle carrying five road workers and kidnapped four of them."
Terrorist PKK kidnaps 4 civilians in Tunceli

"PKK militants forced three people into the woods, including a gendarmerie private who was on his way to visit his family in Gaziantep."
LOCAL - PKK kidnaps one soldier, two civilians
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While I agree that at times they do target civilians and thus act as terrorists. However this time they took on Turkish troops.

As to negotiations, I do not think this Turkish government would negotiate in good faith.

Let's also remember that not long ago Turkish planes killed a number of Kurdish kids, in what may be viewed as an act of terror.
 
washunut said:
While I agree that at times they do target civilians and thus act as terrorists. However this time they took on Turkish troops.

As to negotiations, I do not think this Turkish government would negotiate in good faith.

Let's also remember that not long ago Turkish planes killed a number of Kurdish kids, in what may be viewed as an act of terror.
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which kids ?

evidence.......

if you are talking about bombing of some border smugglers ,they werent that innocent ,they were supporters of terorists in terms of logictics.

and USA military was aware of this operation ,,you can search about it on the net.
 
Medusa said:
now ,i can only call those monsters terorists when they attack civillians ,they are innocent!!!
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Military and government installations would be considered proper target when fighting the authority.
 
washunut said:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...5ZAYEyDDCn3g0o8_w&sig2=ATY50l25n0se4lYBLy_Fuw
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those smugglers wer not innocent kurds ,and they were warned to stop moving , yes they were not exactly terorists but their supporters.

and US military service gave turks some intelligence knowledge about them as if they were terrorists..dont forget no bird can fly here without US's awareness..

and i cant understand why you couldnt find any link for your other claims ,:shock:
 
Medusa said:
those smugglers wer not innocent kurds ,and they were warned to stop moving , yes they were not exactly terorists but their supporters.

and US military service gave turks some intelligence knowledge about them as if they were terrorists..dont forget no bird can fly here without US's awareness..

and i cant understand why you couldnt find any link for your other claims ,:shock:
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blaming the US???

What other claims. Turkey kills Kurdish citizens it seems when the president gets ticked off at something.

As I said, this group has acted as terrorists in the past, I have no problem with the army going after them and killing them. I think you know that there have been a number of instances when Turkey has killed innocent Kurds. What is interesting is that they killed these folks not because they were where fighting was going on, but where the Turkish air force and army just targeted civilians.
 
washunut said:
blaming the US???

What other claims. Turkey kills Kurdish citizens it seems when the president gets ticked off at something.

As I said, this group has acted as terrorists in the past, I have no problem with the army going after them and killing them. I think you know that there have been a number of instances when Turkey has killed innocent Kurds. What is interesting is that they killed these folks not because they were where fighting was going on, but where the Turkish air force and army just targeted civilians.
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just a few months ago ,not in the past......no i dont know what you are talking about!!


US and Turkey are allies and US always supports turkey in this kind of issues ,


if US protects itself against terrorism in the middle east ,turks also have the right to protect its territory and people in their country too!!!!!!!!!!

yes US always helps turkey about pkk ,although sometimes it doesnt because of its own benefits.

dont you know this very important fact?
 
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Medusa said:
if US protects itself against terrorism in the middle east ,turks also have the right to protect its territory and people in their country too!!!!!!!!!!
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The US needs to rethink its strategy in the ME in terms of combating terrorism, however. 60+ years of heavy intervention in the area has not produced desirable results.
 
Ikari said:
The US needs to rethink its strategy in the ME in terms of combating terrorism, however. 60+ years of heavy intervention in the area has not produced desirable results.
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i think wash isnt aware of america's actions to protect itself ,and he doesnt like turkey's actions:lamo
 
Medusa said:
i think wash isnt aware of america's actions to protect itself ,and he doesnt like turkey's actions:lamo
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While America certainly has call to protect itself, we must also be careful how we do so such that we don't exacerbate the situation. The real problem is that when you try to analyze America's actions and say "X and Y are not working well, we need to think about the repercussions of our actions", some people fly off the handle and claim you're trying to blame America for terrorist attacks and blah blah blah.

But the real truth is that actions have consequences and you must be aware of the consequences you are calling forth in order to make intelligent and informed decisions.
 
Ikari said:
While America certainly has call to protect itself, we must also be careful how we do so such that we don't exacerbate the situation. The real problem is that when you try to analyze America's actions and say "X and Y are not working well, we need to think about the repercussions of our actions", some people fly off the handle and claim you're trying to blame America for terrorist attacks and blah blah blah.

But the real truth is that actions have consequences and you must be aware of the consequences you are calling forth in order to make intelligent and informed decisions.
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who is blaming US for terrorist attacks:shock:
 
Medusa said:
who is blaming US for terrorist attacks:shock:
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No one does. But if you say something like "Our actions have consequences, and if you examine the decades of heavy intervention in the ME on part of the US and West in general, you can clearly see how our military actions have led to an environment exceedingly hostile to the West. Terrorist organizations can use this attitude as propaganda in their recruitment and thus heavy military intervention can have adverse effects in fighting the war on terror", there will be a non-zero number of people claiming that you are blaming America for terrorist attacks.

"Blowback" is a real dynamic and to make proper choices we need to understand that and consider that.
 
I am continually amazed at how childish people are about the formation of countries and conquest. Every country and people have engaged in it. Aboriginal tribes in the Americas did it. Europeans did it. Africans did it. It has occured in the past...it occurs today. Conquest is a fact of history.

I think the Turks have a right to attack and suppress terrorist activity. Here's a basic factual reality. Kurdistan is gone. Right, wrong, indifferent...its a fact. The conquered have every right to resent the hell out of it and even try and strike out. They dont have a right to avoid consequence.

My problem with the Kurds is the US position on them. Personally I was repulsed at sending in our A-10s to fly close air support missions for Turkish F4s dropping bombs on Turkish terrorist Kurds and on the same day flying CAS missions in support of Iraqi 'Freedom Fighting' Kurds. When the difference in your positions on the Kurds is based on a border...your position sucks.
 
Medusa said:
who is blaming US for terrorist attacks:shock:
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You would be surprised, both in the sources and the twisted logic. There are a few on the far left within the U.S. that say we are directly resposible because of our foreign policy, some even say we set the attacks as a "false flag" operation. Some on the far right think god is angry at us for respecting gay and other rights they don't agree with so he sent the terrorists on our side. I've never gotten that but........................
 
LaMidRighter said:
You would be surprised, both in the sources and the twisted logic. There are a few on the far left within the U.S. that say we are directly resposible because of our foreign policy, some even say we set the attacks as a "false flag" operation. Some on the far right think god is angry at us for respecting gay and other rights they don't agree with so he sent the terrorists on our side. I've never gotten that but........................
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in fact , US has both good and bad sides like the other countries ,but extremism from both right and left seems so horrible

i am aganist all kind of extremisms
 
Medusa said:
in fact , US has both good and bad sides like the other countries ,but extremism from both right and left seems so horrible

i am aganist all kind of extremisms
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The problem is when people stop listening they get to a point where they think they have all the answers, if it goes too far they think others who disagree are a hinderance, if they go any further they believe that hinderances must be removed(the most extreme end of any spectrum). I'm not saying people have to agree, they just have to be open enough to actually listen.
 
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