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Thread: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

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    Re: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ...................... and I note again, the vast majority of them are good people

    was it so hard to say that?

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    Re: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Exactly what I mean, a normal citizen cannot acquire a warrant. Or in the case of arresting, I mean the full act of a normal arrest by a police officer. It you were to handcuff someone, force them into your vehicle, etc you could be potentially charged with kidnapping, a officer would not if he followed the laws that apply to his actions. If a normal citizen committed the same action, even if he followed the rules that apply to police officers it would not matter because he's not a cop.
    Normal citizens actually can engage in surveillance, the difference is the evidence cannot be distributed or used in court under most circumstances and if things like recordings or pictures are taken out of plain view and distributed then any unwarranted or unlicensed distribution would be subject to criminal and civil penalties. But it actually isn't outside of citizen authority to gather plain view evidence. I can handcuff someone BTW if they are in the act of committing a crime, the power to charge is what we don't have. Warrants are court issues, we don't need them, but that's simply because it isn't our duty to uphold as citizens. I see your point, we have a slight divergence on the priveledge aspect though.


    I said chase, not emergency speeding.
    That really is all a chase is. Using speed to maintain contact.
    For example you see a reckless driver and decide to chase after him to force him off the road to prevent an accident, that would be illegal. However rushing your wife to the hospital because she's about to give birth is an entirely different situation.
    Police also must have documentation to use force with a vehicle, they must get advanced permission to PITT, or set spikes, etc. but you are correct in that we cannot break traffic laws to maintain contact.

    And just to be clear, I would not support charging a citizen who shot a police officer who wrongfully entered his home, even by accident, if he truly thought his life was at risk. It would be a horrible situation and a tragic accident, however the situation being what it is would justify his actions because as far as the shooter knew it was an intruder. I was just making a point that police officers aren't exactly normal citizens given their status.
    Fair enough. Fully agree here.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    Better yet.... abolish the Police Force altogether and let the cannibals take over! how about that huh?
    A better solution is to significantly reduce the number of no-knock warrants. Simply stake out the home/apartment and arrest the suspect as he is walking towards his car.

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    Re: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    was it so hard to say that?
    not at all and I suspect I have known and worked with far more police officers and law enforcement agents than 99% of the people on this board.

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    Re: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    It does not appear this bill give the citizens any more rights than they had before: The added language is puffery. Public servant carry's no special privilege when acting in an unlawful manner to begin with nor does this law absolve the citizen from acting within a reasonable manner.

    SECTION 1. IC 35-41-3-2, AS AMENDED BY P.L.189-2006, SECTION 1, IS AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE UPON PASSAGE]:

    Sec. 2. (a) In enacting this section, the general assembly finds and declares that it is the policy of this state to recognize the unique character of a citizen's home and to ensure that a citizen feels secure in his or her own home against unlawful intrusion by another individual or a public servant. By reaffirming the long standing right of a citizen to protect his or her home against unlawful intrusion, however, the general assembly does not intend to diminish in any way the other robust self defense rights that citizens of this state have always enjoyed. Accordingly, the general assembly also finds and declares that it is the policy of this state that people have a right to defend themselves and third parties from physical harm and crime. The purpose of this section is to provide the citizens of this state with a lawful means of carrying out this policy.

    (i) A person is justified in using reasonable force against a public servant if the person reasonably believes the force is necessary to:
    (1) protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force;
    (2) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle; or
    (3) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect.

    There are limitations, however,

    (j) Notwithstanding subsection (i), a person is not justified in using force against a public servant if:
    (1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission of a crime;
    (2) the person provokes action by the public servant with intent to cause bodily injury to the public servant;
    (3) the person has entered into combat with the public servant or is the initial aggressor, unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the public servant the intent to do so and the public servant nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action; or
    (4) the person reasonably believes the public servant is:
    (A) acting lawfully; or
    (B) engaged in the lawful execution of the public servant's official duties.
    (k) A person is not justified in using deadly force against a public servant whom the person knows or reasonably should know is a public servant unless:
    (1) the person reasonably believes that the public servant is:
    (A) acting unlawfully; or
    (B) not engaged in the execution of the public servant's official duties; and
    (2) the force is reasonably necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person

    Enrolled Act, Senate Bill 0001
    That's my instict here. To me it is more of an effort to cofify protection in case something ever went to trial.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    Better yet.... abolish the Police Force altogether and let the cannibals take over! how about that huh?
    Cannibals now? Didn't you start the zombi thread too?

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    Re: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    Better yet.... abolish the Police Force altogether and let the cannibals take over! how about that huh?
    The Second Amendment exists for a reason.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

    'Ya know, I am kind of torn on this. On one hand, I believe that people have the right to defend their property, but on the other hand, cops can receive faulty information and then kick down the door to the wrong house through no fault of their own. I'll be honest, if my door is being kicked in I will shoot, but if I have good reason to believe that it is the police kicking down my door, I will do nothing, and will allow them to take me into custody. Any mistakes can then be straightened out.

    I don't want to kill someone because of an honest mistake, and I don't want to leave a child without a father.
    Last edited by danarhea; 06-14-12 at 12:30 AM.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    not at all and I suspect I have known and worked with far more police officers and law enforcement agents than 99% of the people on this board.

    so give them a break then!

  10. #50
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    Re: New Indiana gun law allows residents to shoot police

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    They are castrating the Police in Indiana. that's all they are doing.
    I don't see it that way. It appears to be a codified protection for court purposes for any misuse of authority, there is no right to just shoot at will, the property owner must be in the right.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Theres bad everything ...theres bad lawyers that cause people to do prison times...be them overzealous prosecutors or lazy ass CDLs
    Theres bad doctors that kill people...and the list just goes on and on....of course theres bad cops of course some cops do bad things.
    Im not going to get into a long thing here...when theres a raid..all the supvs involved are called into a command center and briefed by brass.
    The street cops are not involved with the briefing...those supv come out of the briefing and give the cops direction...on how its going down.
    Those cops are givin the address...theres alot of reasons bad address's come out...sometimes that is what they believe is the right address and it was based on bad information..sometimes the direct supv on the scene just screws the hell up and sometimes the cops running into multi unit tenement go to the wrong door...but they are MISTAKES...not intentional breachs of anyones rights...its not abuse of power...its a MISTAKE a terrible one yes...but a mistake none the less...
    I get that. I'm not saying that a simple mistake should cost an officer his life, but at the same time an officer who gets overzealous and forgets the basic protections on our property, due process, etc. should not have any expectation of safety much like any other violator. However I do understand that sometimes an incorrect address is breached, at that point the police should identify themselves immediately and assess the situation.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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