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Thread: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

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    Re: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    It still does NOT apply to entering someone else's car, workplace, or property in order to shoot someone, so in essence, it is pretty much the same. People don't have the right to TRESPASS and claim some kind of ersatz Stand Your Ground in Texas, and the Castle Doctrine still has absolutely nothing in common with Stand Your Ground. In essence, there is NO Stand Your Ground defense in Texas, either as part of the Castle Doctrine, or anything else. In Texas, if you are in a fist fight, no matter who started it, and you are getting your ass kicked, you will most definitely go to prison if you pull a gun and shoot the other guy.
    I am not arguing against you on whether it applies or not on the right to trespass and then shoot someone to claim self-defense. I'm with you on that one.

    What I'm saying is that the original "Castle Doctrine" was modified to include version of SYGL. That's the reason that guy repeatedly say he was "standing his ground" before the shooting.

    He's not alone on this belief, there are Texas lawyers who will use the modified version to argue likewise:

    "While Rodriguez was not in his own home or vehicle or business when the shooting happened, Houston criminal defense attorney Grant Scheiner said he believes the law still applies because the 2007 revision gave people wider latitude on when they can use deadly force.

    Raul Rodriguez: When "Stand Your Ground" isn't "Stand Your Ground"
    I think the modified "Castle Doctrine" is a bad law.

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    Re: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    Why do you have to make this into Martin/Zimmerman debate while nobody else before you did? Stay on course and on topic, will ya?
    I admit that I thought of it. If videotape existed of Zimmerman acting like this guy did, that whole thing would be blown open.

    No such evidence exists, and while my reservations over Zimmerman's self-defense claims are similar to what I see here, it's impossible to convict Z without that evidence.

    Maybe we should see if his neighbor was a "no limit honkey," or had ever smoked pot so we can make a judgement.


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Re: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    I am not arguing against you on whether it applies or not on the right to trespass and then shoot someone to claim self-defense. I'm with you on that one.

    What I'm saying is that the original "Castle Doctrine" was modified to include version of SYGL. That's the reason that guy repeatedly say he was "standing his ground" before the shooting.

    He's not alone on this belief, there are Texas lawyers who will use the modified version to argue likewise:



    I think the modified "Castle Doctrine" is a bad law.


    There's absolutely nothing wrong with Castle Doctrine or "Stand your ground". The problem is that in this case it does not apply, because the idiot went on someone else's property, initiated the confrontation, and then fired on people when he was not even necessarily in imminent danger... all of which are big red flag NO NO's in claiming SD.


    He was enough of a dumbass that he thought he could get CD/SYG to cover his OBVIOUS decision to go murder his neighbor... and he's finding out now that it ain't gonna fly.

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    Re: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with Castle Doctrine or "Stand your ground". The problem is that in this case it does not apply, because the idiot went on someone else's property, initiated the confrontation, and then fired on people when he was not even necessarily in imminent danger... all of which are big red flag NO NO's in claiming SD.


    He was enough of a dumbass that he thought he could get CD/SYG to cover his OBVIOUS decision to go murder his neighbor... and he's finding out now that it ain't gonna fly.
    There are cases where SYGL was misapplied by the police dept, or the DA or the judges that I still feel it's a bad law. You may see that this law doesn't even apply to situation like this, but when it comes to situation like this, aggressors like this guy still think they can get away with murder.

    Meanwhile, prosecutors attempted to bring in other testimony Friday that Rodriguez was a neighborhood bully who was known for flashing his gun.

    "I’ll tell you basically how you can kill someone and be above the law," assistant district attorney Kelli Johnson told the judge Rodriguez allegedly said to someone as she attempted to get him to allow the evidence into trial. "You need to say that you are in fear of your life, pull the trigger and you can justify it."

    The judge denied her request.

    Neighbor: Ex-firefighter accused in teacher's death seemed agitated before shooting | khou.com Houston
    Whether these people are right or wrong in their belief, the end result would be a moot point for you if you ended up dead at the encounter.

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    Re: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    There are cases where SYGL was misapplied by the police dept, or the DA or the judges that I still feel it's a bad law. You may see that this law doesn't even apply to situation like this, but when it comes to situation like this, aggressors like this guy still think they can get away with murder.
    I can't think of a single law or rule that cannot be and has not been abused once in a while. This doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad law, just that you'll run into the occasional idiot which is always true.



    Whether these people are right or wrong in their belief, the end result would be a moot point for you if you ended up dead at the encounter.

    It is always possible to run into a homicidal moron, whether he's carrying legally or illegally, SYG or no SYG. That's why I carry a gun and keep a wary eye out for my fellow man.

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    Re: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I can't think of a single law or rule that cannot be and has not been abused once in a while. This doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad law, just that you'll run into the occasional idiot which is always true.






    It is always possible to run into a homicidal moron, whether he's carrying legally or illegally, SYG or no SYG. That's why I carry a gun and keep a wary eye out for my fellow man.
    There was an article in the Miami Herald about a month ago written by chief's of police across the country.. They HATE SYG as bad, "squishy" law.

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    Re: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    There was an article in the Miami Herald about a month ago written by chief's of police across the country.. They HATE SYG as bad, "squishy" law.

    Oddly enough my sheriff likes it and has expressed his support of citizens defending themselves when attacked.

    Let's be clear: there is no one "Stand Your Ground" law. Every state that has one has it worded a bit differently.

    The primary concept in most cases is removing the "duty to retreat before using deadly force in self-defense" that many states had on the books previously.

    Removing the duty to retreat is good. The majority of times where you are under an imminent threat of deadly force, attempting to retreat just means you give the BG a good opportunity to shoot you in the back, or stab you in the back.

    That's not to say that, if in any given confrontation in a public place you have a GOOD OPPORTUNITY to end the matter by withdrawing, that doing so is by far the smart thing to do. The problem with making it mandatory is that it is sometimes not feasible, and adding any further hoops to jump through for SD is bad IMO.

    "Stand Your Ground" is really a poor name for the concept. It is fundamentally simply ending the legal mandatory requirement to retreat before shooting in a public venue. I don't know who coined the term SYG but they should be beaten with a wet noodle until they recant. The TERM (more than the actual law) may make an occasional idiot think he can do stupid crap like this story in the OP.

    But then again, you can always run into an idiot, and that's been true long before there was any such thing as SYG.

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    Re: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Oddly enough my sheriff likes it and has expressed his support of citizens defending themselves when attacked.

    Let's be clear: there is no one "Stand Your Ground" law. Every state that has one has it worded a bit differently.

    The primary concept in most cases is removing the "duty to retreat before using deadly force in self-defense" that many states had on the books previously.

    Removing the duty to retreat is good. The majority of times where you are under an imminent threat of deadly force, attempting to retreat just means you give the BG a good opportunity to shoot you in the back, or stab you in the back.

    That's not to say that, if in any given confrontation in a public place you have a GOOD OPPORTUNITY to end the matter by withdrawing, that doing so is by far the smart thing to do. The problem with making it mandatory is that it is sometimes not feasible, and adding any further hoops to jump through for SD is bad IMO.

    "Stand Your Ground" is really a poor name for the concept. It is fundamentally simply ending the legal mandatory requirement to retreat before shooting in a public venue. I don't know who coined the term SYG but they should be beaten with a wet noodle until they recant. The TERM (more than the actual law) may make an occasional idiot think he can do stupid crap like this story in the OP.

    But then again, you can always run into an idiot, and that's been true long before there was any such thing as SYG.
    Well, I don't like SYG... I think that sort of situation is covered by "self defense".. and Castle Doctrine which IMO is good law covers the rest.

    I think SYG gives lay people the wrong idea.

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    Re: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with Castle Doctrine or "Stand your ground". The problem is that in this case it does not apply, because the idiot went on someone else's property, initiated the confrontation, and then fired on people when he was not even necessarily in imminent danger... all of which are big red flag NO NO's in claiming SD.


    He was enough of a dumbass that he thought he could get CD/SYG to cover his OBVIOUS decision to go murder his neighbor... and he's finding out now that it ain't gonna fly.
    Yes - in this particular case the man shot in the OP was the one needing to use the SYG law.

    What's with some of these idiots out there who really think it means they can do whatever they want?
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    Re: Man claims self-defense in fatal shooting of a neighbor

    This is sad. He probably is a good guy but stupid. I carry all the time and dread the day if I ever have to pull it out much less take a life. I never want to kill anyone from a moral stance but some, if not most people that I have spoke with don't realize what can happen from a legal point of view if you kill someone legally. Some joke about it and that is scary. The greatest fear I had in the military is carryng the memories of war for the rest of my life.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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