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Thread: Record Spending On 2012 Elections By GOP Groups

  1. #71
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    Re: Record Spending On 2012 Elections By GOP Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    LOL. He signed a budget that raised the annual deficit by 400B to 800B then off budget spending increased by another 800B that same year. THOSE are facts.

    He did inherit a bad situation, he allowed the congress to direct the spending of the stimulus and he increased a liberal pet projects as targets for his budget increases. Those increases are not paying off in terms of economic growth. His leadership in how to deal with the situation and his approach is not creating the growth we would all like to see.
    Guess we'll be meeting again in a flat-earth debate. Cheers.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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    Re: Record Spending On 2012 Elections By GOP Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Guess we'll be meeting again in a flat-earth debate. Cheers.
    This is known as baiting. Toodles.

  3. #73
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    Re: Record Spending On 2012 Elections By GOP Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    It pours money into the economy.
    Yes, for the TV/radio industry (i.e., local networks) and maybe print media (i.e., post cards, flyers, some news print), but the economic footprint is rather small nationally don't you think?

  4. #74
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    Re: Record Spending On 2012 Elections By GOP Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251, replying to another View Post
    [...] Obama inherited a $1.3-trillion deficit, period, end of discussion. There is zero wiggle room here. To argue against that makes as much sense as arguing that the Earth is flat.
    Conservatives used to argue that too...

  5. #75
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    Re: Record Spending On 2012 Elections By GOP Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Concorde Coalition is a center left think tank.
    Ad hominem noted and dismissed. What about the Heritage Foundation (who agreed with the Concorde Coalition)?

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    As for your opinion comments, where are we again? A political forum, where a lot of opinions are tossed about, one holding about as much weight as anyone else's, appeals to anything and everything aside. [...]
    Wrong. Again. We are at Debate Politics. The nature of debate involves some type of rational argument, generally bolstered by facts. Of course there is room and even points for flair or the dramatic or even the emotional (depending on the setting and the audience), but mere unsubstantiated opinions are for blogs.

    To clarify, opinions are fine if the reasoning for the opinion is provided -- in which case one is providing a reasoned conclusion rather than a mere opinion. For example, while it may be your opinion that center left think tanks only produce lies or inaccurate information, your opinion alone does not qualify as debate (in fact, logical fallacies such as that will lose you points in a formal debate).

    debate

    formal, oral confrontation between two individuals, teams, or groups who present arguments to support opposing sides of a question, generally according to a set form or procedure

    debate. Dictionary.com. Encyclopedia Britannica, Inc.. Encyclopedia Britannica, Inc.. Debate | Define Debate at Dictionary.com (accessed: June 24, 2012).
    'Because I say so' is not an argument. At least not beyond, say, age 8

  6. #76
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    Re: Record Spending On 2012 Elections By GOP Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    [...]Just a heads up but government appropriations are distinctly NOT the real world. As soon as the appropriations are done it goes into that year. The actual spending may occur later but if its not a budgetary line item it goes into the budget year its appropriated---IE 2009.

    Saying its a given fiscal year and all responsibility goes to the previous year's President would be the case in normal circumstances. However, thats not quite how it played out. Are you willing to say Obama bears no responsibility for a budget he signed? A budget that increased the FY spending by $400B before the stimulus?
    In my earlier post I was clearly willing to assign that $400B to Obama, so you have resorted to a strawman. Again, a failure in a debate setting.

    Given that you want to assign only about $400B of the FY2008 shortfall to Bush and/or Bush policies, while given that we know that at least the wars were being run off budget (which would increase the $400B by a significant amount), let's try a different approach -- one not susceptible to opinions, interpretations, or budgetary smoke-and-mirrors, although we will have to abandon the FY approach:

    On 1/22/2008, the total public debt, as it is currently defined, was $9.2 trillion
    On 1/20/2009, when Obama took office, the total public debt was 10.6 trillion ( Government - Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application) )

    Clearly, during Bush's last year in office the effective annual deficit was $1.4 trillion. No smoke. No mirrors.

  7. #77
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    Re: Record Spending On 2012 Elections By GOP Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Ad hominem noted and dismissed. What about the Heritage Foundation (who agreed with the Concorde Coalition)?


    Wrong. Again. We are at Debate Politics. The nature of debate involves some type of rational argument, generally bolstered by facts. Of course there is room and even points for flair or the dramatic or even the emotional (depending on the setting and the audience), but mere unsubstantiated opinions are for blogs.

    To clarify, opinions are fine if the reasoning for the opinion is provided -- in which case one is providing a reasoned conclusion rather than a mere opinion. For example, while it may be your opinion that center left think tanks only produce lies or inaccurate information, your opinion alone does not qualify as debate (in fact, logical fallacies such as that will lose you points in a formal debate).


    'Because I say so' is not an argument. At least not beyond, say, age 8
    Im not the one whining about the other guy stating his opinion and presenting his argument. Then we have Phys who is claiming his arguments are law. You guys are rediculous. Pointing out that Concorde Coalition is a center left think tank isnt an ad hom its adressing the point that their political viewpoint may color their conclusions. Its an argument that they may not be drawing accurate conclusions or may be cherry picking data. IE dont accept their conclusions and data as gospel because they may have an agenda. Its how thinking people approach data, cautiously and skeptically with corroboration or invalidation from other sources.

    Karl, you are a total bloody hypocrit on most of the content of your post so be careful you dont fall off that high horse, you may hurt yourself. Stick to the topic and dont assume an arrogant lecturing posture, you dont have the balls or the brains to pull it off with aplomb.

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