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Thread: EPA Spying on Ranchers

  1. #61
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    I am a HUGE slippery slope theorist, but there is no slope here on which to slip. The skies are public. Ger over it.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I am a HUGE slippery slope theorist, but there is no slope here on which to slip. The skies are public. Ger over it.
    At one time you actually did own the air space above your property until the advent of the plane then the law became obsolete. Planes had to be able to over fly private property to get from point A to point B. So far so good.

    I have said before how DEA helicopters circle my house in late summer looking for a pot growing operation because I live in a remote area, have a big garden and a green house. They come in so close I can see their faces. Step 1 down the slippery slope, I assume you are OK with this.

    Now the EPA is flying drones over ranches and using high power cameras to looking for pollution violations. You also seem OK with this. Step 2 down the slippery slope.

    So now we have drones taking pictures of our private property. When they develop a small helicopter drone that can fly circles around your house taking pictures through your windows will you be OK with that too? Are the skis still public? Where does the sky begin and your right to privacy end?

    Can you see the slippery slope yet?

  3. #63
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Sawyer-
    It is easy to imagine all manner of '1984' scenarios. I guess if you watch enough movies you can envision anything. But what makes me very dismissive of the slippery slope crowd is they rant a great deal but do little if anything about it. I suppose they figure the rest of society is like them, grumble but do nothing. I can see a face 500' away and that is by FAA regs. Did the helo come around daily? File a harassment complaint.

    But as mentioned by others, there is no slippery slope, so get a grip.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Sawyer-
    It is easy to imagine all manner of '1984' scenarios. I guess if you watch enough movies you can envision anything. But what makes me very dismissive of the slippery slope crowd is they rant a great deal but do little if anything about it. I suppose they figure the rest of society is like them, grumble but do nothing. I can see a face 500' away and that is by FAA regs. Did the helo come around daily? File a harassment complaint.

    But as mentioned by others, there is no slippery slope, so get a grip.
    I described the slippery slope we have already slipped down, have some more coffee, wake up.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Sawyer-
    ummmm no you didn't. You made up some stuff and declared it angled.

    First of all no one ever owned the airspace over their land as private citizens. Do you have ANY documentation on that?

    You then make some crazy jump from cops on public right of ways to them trespassing without a warrant to peek in on you.

    You rant about seeing faces, did you see them everyday? Do you see them now? Just what slippery slope you having trouble with?

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Yeah making sure ranches are not dumping manure slurry into streams is making them frog march!

    Get over it, given the underfunding the 'I hate gov' politicians engage in just how does the EPA monitor pollution? Drive to every ranch/pig operation/chicken factory?

    It's called using technology to reduce costs. The tin foil crowd is free to disagree. FYI- I don't have a problem with them over flying my ranch, why would you have a problem with them flying over yours?
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Well I'd agree, but did you see where they had a "warrant in hand" to do this? If not, then isn't this action unconstitutional?

    I can see by you post it would be okay with you if they "monitored" your actions every now and again, without cause or warrant. But it wouldn't be okay in my book.


    Just asking.
    The government doesn't need a warrant to fly over U.S. air space. They don't even need a warrant to survey potential criminal activity. To put that notion into perspective, does a private dictative need a warrant to monitor the comings and goings of a suspected cheating spouse when hired by the husband or wife? I think not. So, why should the federal government have to have a warrant to monitor pig and/or chicken farmers and cattle rangers of suspected illegal dumping of animal waste in our drinking water?

    Now, once the fed decides to narrow its surviellance to a specific target, that's a different story especially if they shift their monitoring activity from the air to the ground and federal agents decide to set foot on the suspect's land. But as long as all they're doing is monitoring activity and they have probably cause to do so much like your local police, no warrant is necessary.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-09-12 at 08:19 PM.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Sawyer-
    ummmm no you didn't. You made up some stuff and declared it angled.

    First of all no one ever owned the airspace over their land as private citizens. Do you have ANY documentation on that?

    You then make some crazy jump from cops on public right of ways to them trespassing without a warrant to peek in on you.

    You rant about seeing faces, did you see them everyday? Do you see them now? Just what slippery slope you having trouble with?
    Unlimited air rights existed when people began owning real estate. It was not something that anyone really concerned themselves with before the 20th century. The first legal limits placed on air rights came about because of the airplane. Eventually, owners only had rights to airspace that they could reasonably use. It would be impractical for the development of air travel for individual landowners to own all the air above them, because airplanes would be constantly trespassing.

    Air rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I will accept your apology, I don't hold a grudge.

  8. #68
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    I fully agree that what the EPA is doing is legal. Anything that is out in the open is up for grabs...even if that something is in the middle of 500 acres.

    But I am begining to have concerns. Technology is getting so advanced that I have no doubt that eventually there will be technology that can see every little detail inside a brick house with no windows from across the street. (or perhaps farther) So I think that we need to start asking ourselves where do we draw the line? When does all this technology that can be used without physically invading someones home become an invasion? When will we start requiring warrants for this technology to be used?

    The Right to Privacy and the Right to a Search Warrant is quickly getting obsolete.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    It is an interesting concept, but flawed. Perhaps that is why when a challenge became practicable the term disappeared not unlike a petty tyrant declaring himself Lord of all the earth, heavens and the seas....

    until some bigger tyrant put his head on a pike.

    A man can declare any damn thing he can think of, enforcing that 'right' is the key point.

    Was there ever a case where a man successfully sued another over that column of air up to Heaven back in the 1600's? Up above 500'.

    More like as soon as there was a way to USE that column of air the landowner's 'claim' was meaningless.

    Again, declare any fantasy you like, believe any fantasy you wish. You don't own what you don't control.

    Doesn't matter how long ago the claim was made, it was meaningless then and meaningless now.

    No slippery slope, just fantasy fading as it meets reality...

    Divine right of kings
    Spontaneous generation
    Spanish claim to the entire New World
    Ownership of everything below St. Peter's Gate

    Good try though...

  10. #70
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    It is an interesting concept, but flawed. Perhaps that is why when a challenge became practicable the term disappeared not unlike a petty tyrant declaring himself Lord of all the earth, heavens and the seas....

    until some bigger tyrant put his head on a pike.

    A man can declare any damn thing he can think of, enforcing that 'right' is the key point.

    Was there ever a case where a man successfully sued another over that column of air up to Heaven back in the 1600's? Up above 500'.

    More like as soon as there was a way to USE that column of air the landowner's 'claim' was meaningless.

    Again, declare any fantasy you like, believe any fantasy you wish. You don't own what you don't control.

    Doesn't matter how long ago the claim was made, it was meaningless then and meaningless now.

    No slippery slope, just fantasy fading as it meets reality...

    Divine right of kings
    Spontaneous generation
    Spanish claim to the entire New World
    Ownership of everything below St. Peter's Gate

    Good try though...
    You really need to work on your apology skills, they are somewhat weak.

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