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Thread: EPA Spying on Ranchers

  1. #51
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    These ranchers sound retarded.

    Anything to bash the EPA. All the poor white trash will vote conservative until their kids are born with one eye because the Koch bros dumped crap into their water.

    This country is doomed if regulators can't enforce rules.
    That almost sounds like you are insulting ranchers, calling them poor white trash. A large portion of my family, including my late grandfather are ranchers, and yes, are conservatives. They are good, pretty honest folk. They also know hard damn work doing simple things like putting up posts across many many acres for days on end from sunup to sundown.
    My grandfather (a highly educated man, who was a veterinarian) , I do not know how he would react to this. My intuition is he may have been perfectly fine with a fly-over, because he was an impatient man and didn't like to be bothered when he felt like he didn't need to be.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 06-07-12 at 04:31 AM.
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  2. #52
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Fiddytree-
    he said THESE ranchers not ALL ranchers. I am a rancher. I didn't think he was talking about all or us.

  3. #53
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    This could be an interesting battle. How high does law enforcement need to be when they fly over your property? 10,000 feet? 1000 feet? 1foot? Clearly, a line must be drawn.

    In this case, I think it is very easy for the EPA to monitor the water supply and then get a warrant to search suspected lands via air. It seems to me that the over flights for the sake of over flights is unnecessary.
    Simply monitoring water for pollution is ineffective. All it tells you is that a waterway is polluted, you don't typically get a source for it. For example, I live in the KC area. Probably half the rivers and fishable streams in Kansas have fish consumption advisories due to agricultural runoff. The issue is much worse on the Kansas side than on the Missouri side because in Missouri farmers are required to have much larger buffer zones around rivers and streams. The Kansas River is heavily polluted in its middle and lower reaches. How could you possibly determine a source for agriculture runoff pollution on it just from testing the water when you have hundreds (if not more) farms backing right up to the river on its entire length?

    When you have a country that has 300 million people in it, lots of industry, and a lots of high intensity farming, you have to have strict environmental enforcement to mitigate pollution from all that industry and farming. As the population grows, environmental enforcement must grow along with it. For example, the pesticide chlordane was banned by the EPA in 1983. Its highly toxic to humans and animals and is tied to birth defects. Today, almost 30 years after Chlordane was banned, catfish caught from the Kansas River still are contaminated with Chlordane. Farming and ranching are some of the biggest sources of water pollution.
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    “Searching” for pollution infractions should be no different than “searching” for drugs, stolen property or any other suspected crime, you need a SEARCH warrant, or at least you should. The EPA seems to think it is above the constitution.

  5. #55
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    “Searching” for pollution infractions should be no different than “searching” for drugs, stolen property or any other suspected crime, you need a SEARCH warrant, or at least you should. The EPA seems to think it is above the constitution.
    Even in the examples you cite they can "search" for anything without a warrant as long as they do so from public right-of-way, and do not enter the property itself. What's needed is for you to brush up on what is and is not Constitutional.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    There is a principle called in plain sight.

    A cop stops a car for speeding and while talking to the driver he spots a roach in the ashtray or a powder on the console. He doesn't need a warrant to seize the suspected drugs for evidence.

    Answering a domestic and the cop sees a mirror on the table with white powder residue, again he doesn't need a warrant to seize the evidence.

    A police helicopter doesn't need a warrant to spot pot fields out in the country.

    A EPA plane doesn't need a warrant to over fly an illegal trash dump out in the country.

    In plain sight...

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Even in the examples you cite they can "search" for anything without a warrant as long as they do so from public right-of-way, and do not enter the property itself. What's needed is for you to brush up on what is and is not Constitutional.
    If a cop drives by and see’s pot growing in your yard it’s one thing, if he however goes around a neighborhood looking over fences actively seeking pot growers it’s a different thing altogether. That is what the EPA is doing by flying over ranches looking for pollution and the DEA does the same thing looking for pot. Both are out of control government agencies leading us down the road to tyranny.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    So it is a height of driver's seat issue? Tall enough to see over a fence and good to go?

    You really want to pick that nit?

    Overflights have already been used for years, though some seem intent to claim surprise such things are done and others attempting to make it look like a peeper instead of professional doing a lawful function of the government.

    Silly really....

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    So it is a height of driver's seat issue? Tall enough to see over a fence and good to go?

    You really want to pick that nit?

    Overflights have already been used for years, though some seem intent to claim surprise such things are done and others attempting to make it look like a peeper instead of professional doing a lawful function of the government.

    Silly really....
    Freedom is taken away one little piece at a time. They get you used to something like flying over your prop without a warrent and soon they are looking in your windows.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    awww the old slippery slope argument... I loved it most when used to fight commies in every sh*thole country around the world!

    the problem with your 'argument' as weak as it is, hinges on something that belies part of it's name-

    Common sense not being very common.

    a man standing in the county road without my permission is a bit annoying under certain circumstances

    a man standing in my house without my permission is a bit dead under most circumstances, a cop had better announce and have that warrant.

    You seem to lack the ability to tell public use from private, the EPA agent can't come ON my property to peek INTO my window but can fly 500 feet over my land and see all he/she can as long as they DON't peek into my windows.

    Your logic reminds me of the argument that a man's fingerprints are protected and can't be used against him in a court of law as they incriminate him and we are protected from self incrimination...

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