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Thread: EPA Spying on Ranchers

  1. #31
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Drones don't have pilots
    Sure they do, they're just sitting on the ground.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  2. #32
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    U.S. News - EPA planes spying on ranchers? Lawmakers want answers

    "A Nebraska cattlemen’s group is pushing the Environmental Protection Agency to stop pollution-control flights over ranches, claiming it amounts to spying on citizens. EPA, meanwhile, says the flights are an effective way to quickly spot -- and stop -- pollution from manure lagoons and other waste at large livestock operations."


    Ya just gotta love the gov't. I guess the EPA just wants to make sure all ranchers are walking in lockstep.


    Wonder how they got a warrant to do this? Wonder who's next on the spy-in-the-sky's "lookie see" program? Maybe your backyard?
    Well, I don't know about that: such agencies are making fly overs of neighborhoods that have homes with pools to look for ones that are green with stagnant water, and fining those homeowners for providing misquito breedng grounds (that spread diseases and create health hazards). So the idea that the EPA is really performing the same service for the same reasons doesn't soun unreasoanble to me.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Cities and counties have been doing this for decades, finding construction without permit. I don't like the idea of drones any more than anyone here, however, these overflights are legal without warrant. Even if we manage to get the FAA to restrict the drones, plane overflights will remain legal.
    Last edited by clownboy; 06-05-12 at 04:52 PM.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Very good point. How are you going to stop anybody in any sort of flying machine from looking down?

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Sure they do, they're just sitting on the ground.
    No, that's a guy sitting in an air-conditioned room playing a video game. Not a pilot. Don't believe me? Ask him for his pilot's license!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Duece is correct. Those are operators, not pilots.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Sweeping the floor to get all the nits being picked...

    Back on topic, The only opposition to this seems knee jerk against being watched, even if everyone admits it is legal. things like this are already being done for a variety of reasons by a variety of governments from city all the way up to Federal. Around here for years night time overflights are done looking for pot grower hot spots in barns. I am not a big fan of a lot of the War on Drugs but the overflights are legal.

    I think the Ranchers are being a bit whiny and stretching the truth to try and get Tea Party support against 'an overreaching unelected agency's unfunded mandates'.

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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Duece is correct. Those are operators, not pilots.
    Drone Pilots
    : The Future Of Aerial Warfare


    "The biggest training center of its kind in the United States, Holloman has become the primary training ground for
    pilots who fly unmanned aerial vehicles, or drones."
    There, pilots learn to fly the MQ-1 Predator and the MQ-9 Reaper, two of the military's most important weapons systems. These remotely controlled planes can hover in the air 24 hours at a time, collecting intelligence or carrying out a strike in Afghanistan.


    Drone Pilots: The Future Of Aerial Warfare : NPR

  9. #39
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You're extrapolating the limits of the 4th Amendment beyond what they really say, and even mean. The skies belong to the government (read: public), not the individual property owners, and as such they are not violating any private property laws whatsoever. Just as the government also owns the public streets, and can sit there and use devices such as binoculars and cameras to observe as much as they can into private property, they can use the same concept with the public skies.

    There is NOTHING in the 4th Amendment that limits law enforcement from investigating anything they want as long as they do it from a distance. Public areas are a distance. Warrants and the such are only necessary when they want to search the actual property itself.

    The 4th amendment is about needing to obtain a warrant before a search and seizure.Its irrelevant if your property is where they conduct the search on your property is or if they use some other property to conduct a search of your property.Flying a plane, helicopter, satellite or what ever over someone's property specifically in order to look for something is a search. Again the 4th amendment is not about privacy,so the fact they can see something is irrelevant from some other spot is irrelevant. It would be one thing if for example a helicopter was flying point A to point B and notice illegal activity was going on.However this is not the case with the EPA, they are deliberately flying over in order conduct a search without a warrant.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #40
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    Re: EPA Spying on Ranchers

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, that's a guy sitting in an air-conditioned room playing a video game. Not a pilot. Don't believe me? Ask him for his pilot's license!
    Piloting... operating... controlling... an aircraft that has the potential of crashing and killing people is a game to you? Wow. Just... wow.


    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Duece is correct. Those are operators, not pilots.
    Synonyms. Semantics.


    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Sweeping the floor to get all the nits being picked...
    No kidding.

    Pilot - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    pi·lot
       [pahy-luht] Show IPA
    noun
    3. Aeronautics . a person duly qualified to operate an airplane, balloon, or other aircraft.

    Note: Other definitions regarding other uses omitted for brevity. You can find them all at the above link.
    No mention of a license being necessary, though I'd bet that specific training and certification of some kind is still required. Regardless, the term is for the action, not the certification.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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