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Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

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Adan Chavez has already made it clear that he is going to take over by force if necessary when Hugo either dies or looses an election.

It seems like someone may be out to assassinate Adan Chavez....:shock::lol:

"A crossword writer has been accused of hiding a coded message to assassinate President Hugo Chavez's brother in a newspaper puzzle. Venezuelan intelligence agents interviewed Neptali Segovia after a state TV pundit said his clues revealed a secret message to gun down Chavez's brother Adan. It is the latest bizarre political story to emerge from the South American nation, which is having a particularly fraught year ahead of its elections."

article-0-130C1EBE000005DC-570_468x.jpg

Strong words: Answers to the crossword included 'Adan' (Chavez's brother), 'asesinen' (meaning 'kill') and 'rafaga' (which can mean either a burst of gunfire, or a gust of wind)




Crossword setter accused of writing coded message to kill Chavez's brother into newspaper puzzle | Mail Online
 
Really?
Then why has he been re-elected many times in fair elections?
And why has his programs he implemented lead to this?
http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2009-02.pdf
on this?

Venezuela Rejects U.S. Democrat The OAS was the group that most use as their argument that the elections were fair. Now though they are back to villonizing the OAS, “It both worries and terrorises me at the same time this offer to send a “robust mission” to my country,” responded Chaderton, who added that he would alert the Venezuela’s Ministry of Defence to Engel’s comments." Obviously they do not want monitors this time.

Inter-American Dialogue | Publication

"Participants also questioned whether the National Electoral Council would invite international observers to monitor next year’s elections. Lucena stated that the Venezuelan system only admits what they define as “accompaniment,” arguing that “we call upon people that we consider to have the credentials to observe the process, and we invite them.” She noted that Venezuela stopped inviting the Organization of American States and the Carter Center after 2006. Lucena compared Venezuela to Argentina, which has also rejected election observers.

Participants also commented that high-ranking military officials have recently stated that they would not recognize the results of the elections if the opposition won. Lucena responded that the armed forces have always expressed that they are “subordinate to the National Electoral Council” and praised their cooperation in past elections. However, she did not clarify whether the National Electoral Council would condemn the statements.


Venezuela only invites monitors that the deem useful, they do not allow just anyone to monitor the elections. Now I wonder why they wont just let anyone monitor their elections? Could this be part of why Venezuelans do not have much faith in the National Electoral Council?

Venezuela Elections: Jennifer McCoy Gives Insider's Account to The Economist In conclusion, the vote itself was secret and free, but the CNE's lack of openness, last-minute changes and internal divisions harmed public confidence in that vital institution both before and after the vote. Divisive rhetoric and intimidating tactics from Chavistas, and the opposition's still-unsubstantiated claims of fraud, have exacerbated Venezuelans' cynicism toward elections. It will take a huge effort by both sides to restore trust in this fundamental democratic right before next month's election for governors and mayors.


Most people consider the HRW as a Left leaning organisation. Just about all Rightwingers will attack anything to do with the HRW
World Report 2012: Venezuela | Human Rights Watch

"Events of 2011

DOWNLOADABLE RESOURCES:
World Report Chapter: Venezuela (2012)
The weakening of Venezuela’s democratic system of checks and balances under President Hugo Chávez has contributed to a precarious human rights situation. Without judicial checks on its actions, the government has systematically undermined the right to free expression, workers’ freedom of association, and the ability of human rights groups to protect rights.

Weeks before the new National Assembly—with a substantial opposition composition—took office in January 2011, Chávez’s supporters in the legislature adopted several laws that increased the government’s ability to undercut rights.

Police abuses and impunity remain a grave problem. Prison conditions are deplorable, and fatality rates high due to inmate violence."

[...]Judicial Independence

In 2004 Chávez and his legislative allies conducted a political takeover of the Supreme Court, filling it with government supporters and creating new measures that make it possible to purge justices from the court. In December 2010 the outgoing legislators from Chávez’s political party modified the timeline so they could make appointments before leaving office: they appointed 9 permanent justices and 32 stand-ins, including several allies. Since 2004, the court has largely abdicated its role as a check on executive power, failing to protect fundamental rights enshrined in the constitution.

{..]Legislating by Decree

In December 2010 the outgoing National Assembly passed an enabling law that granted Chávez broad powers to legislate by decree on a wide range of issues for 18 months. The law’s vague provisions could directly impact the exercise of rights by, for example, allowing the president to determine which penalties can be imposed when someone commits a crime. As of November 2011 Chávez had adopted over 20 legislative decrees, including one reinstating crimes previously derogated by the legislature. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of this decree, which criminalized several banking practices, arguing that economic crimes are “crimes against humanity” and could not be decriminalized.

[..]Freedom of Media

Venezuela enjoys a vibrant public debate in which anti-government and pro-government media criticize and defend the president. However, the government has discriminated against media that air political opponents’ views, strengthened the state’s ability to limit free speech and created powerful incentives for government critics to self-censor.

[..]Prosecuting Government Critics

Several prominent critics of Chávez’s government have been targeted for criminal prosecution in recent years. The courts’ lack of independence reduced the chances of them receiving a fair trial.

[..]Human Rights Defenders

Chávez’s government has aggressively sought to discredit human rights defenders. In June Justice Minister Tarek El Aissami accused Humberto Prado of the Venezuelan Observatory of Prisons of “destabilizing the prison system” and having been “an accomplice in the massacre of inmates” in the past. After several official media outlets discredited Prado, he received multiple death threats and left Venezuela for two months.

In July 2010 the Supreme Court ruled that “obtaining financial resources, either directly or indirectly, from foreign states with the intent of using them against the Republic, [and] the interest of the people [could constitute] treason.” That same month members of Chávez’s political party filed a criminal complaint with the Attorney General’s Office, alleging that several local human rights NGOs had committed treason by receiving funding from foreign donors. Over 30 NGOs are currently under investigation, according to local media.

In December 2010 the National Assembly adopted two laws that, if applied to human rights organizations, could severely undermine their ability to work independently. The “Law for the Defense of Political Sovereignty and National Self Determination” blocks NGOS that “defend political rights” or “monitor the performance of public bodies” from receiving international funding. It also imposes stiff fines on organizations that invite foreigners who express opinions that offend institutions or undermine national sovereignty. The “Organic Law on Social Control”—which regulates the work of organizations and individuals that have an impact on “general or collective interests”—states that individuals must follow the law’s socialist principles and values: those who violate the law may face civil, administrative, or criminal sanctions.

Police Abuses

Violent crime is rampant in Venezuela, where extrajudicial killings by security agents remain a problem. The minister of the interior and justice has estimated that police commit one of every five crimes. According to the most recent official statistics, law enforcement agents allegedly killed 7,998 people between January 2000 and the first third of 2009.

[...]Prison Conditions

Venezuelan prisons are among the most violent in Latin America. Weak security, deteriorating infrastructure, overcrowding, insufficient and poorly trained guards, and corruption allow armed gangs to effectively control prisons. Hundreds of violent prison deaths occur every year. In June 2011, at least 25 people were killed and over 60 seriously injured, including prisoners and National Guard members, after clashes between inmates in the El Rodeo prisons.

Labor Rights

The National Electoral Council (CNE), a public authority, has the power to organize and certify all union elections, violating international standards that guarantee workers the right to elect their representatives in full freedom, according to conditions they determine. Established unions whose elections have not been CNE-certified may not participate in collective bargaining.

For several years the government has promised to reform the relevant labor and electoral laws to restrict state interference in union elections. Reforms that explicitly state that union elections held without CNE participation are legally valid were still pending before the National Assembly at this writing

Key International Actors

Venezuela’s government has increasingly rejected international monitoring of its human rights record. In September 2011 the Supreme Court president held that Venezuela will “respect all international agreements only if … international bodies respect [Venezuelan] sovereignty and … jurisdiction.”

 
It seems like someone may be out to assassinate Adan Chavez....:shock::lol:

"A crossword writer has been accused of hiding a coded message to assassinate President Hugo Chavez's brother in a newspaper puzzle. Venezuelan intelligence agents interviewed Neptali Segovia after a state TV pundit said his clues revealed a secret message to gun down Chavez's brother Adan. It is the latest bizarre political story to emerge from the South American nation, which is having a particularly fraught year ahead of its elections."

article-0-130C1EBE000005DC-570_468x.jpg

Strong words: Answers to the crossword included 'Adan' (Chavez's brother), 'asesinen' (meaning 'kill') and 'rafaga' (which can mean either a burst of gunfire, or a gust of wind)




Crossword setter accused of writing coded message to kill Chavez's brother into newspaper puzzle | Mail Online

That's a bit of a stretch as a serious assassination plot.
 
I wonder if Chavez will drop out of being the leader if he is dying.

Nah, they'll stuff him and put him in a glass case like the soviets did with Lenin. He'll continue to 'lead'.
 
Nah, they'll stuff him and put him in a glass case like the soviets did with Lenin. He'll continue to 'lead'.

some leaders really never die.they are unforgettable..
 
Things are not always as balanced and fair they appear, for example, the result of the referendum to recall Chavez whose numbers some believe were skewed and a fraud* was committed. This led to an abysmal existence for those who believed Chavez and his promises.
Actually the 2004 referendum was actually stated to be fair. The OAS and the Carter Center who were the 2 main groups monitoring the elections at the time reported them to be free and fair.

"
After the Electoral Counsel stated Chavez won decisively, his opponents were quick to claim fraud, citing no evidence other than the internalized belief that it was impossible for Chávez to have such support. Such claims kept the recall from simmering into the second day, though they were eventually dismissed as the electoral observers, including Jimmy Carter and OAS leader Cesar Gaveria deemed the results to be fair. The fervently anti-Chávez bloggster and former NY Times reporter Francisco Toro put it as such on the day after the results.

But it looks very much to me like the government won fair and square. If it didn't, it'll come out in the paper-trail audit, which CNE's Jorge Rodriguez has already agreed to.
The audit option, which would manually recount the paper ballots that each individual put into the ballot box, thus dismissing any myth of computer fraud, was rejected the next day by the same opposition leaders who cried so hard to make sure they get one."
The Implications and Explanation of Venezuela's Recall Election. | the narcosphere
The Repeatedly Re-Elected Autocrat





See posts 49, 37.
Ehhh whats the problem here?
 
Venezuela Rejects U.S. Democrat The OAS was the group that most use as their argument that the elections were fair. Now though they are back to villonizing the OAS, “It both worries and terrorises me at the same time this offer to send a “robust mission” to my country,” responded Chaderton, who added that he would alert the Venezuela’s Ministry of Defence to Engel’s comments." Obviously they do not want monitors this time.

Uhh how did they "villonize the OAS"? They villionized this guy who called Venezuela a dictatorship. Why would they allow a country back into their country after the US supported a coup against Chavez?
Plus numerous other NGO's and monitors have called the elections fair.
http://democracychange.com/2011 FDA Electoral Fairness Report on Venezuela.pdf
https://nacla.org/node/5741
Venezuela Ranked Number One in Electoral Fairness by Foundation for Democratic Advancement | venezuelanalysis.com
Venezuelan Elections Show Democracy at Work | Common Dreams

Leopoldo López played a key role in the coup against Chavez. I wonder how we would treat people if they played a key role in a coup in the US? He also took illegal political contributions, and illegally accepting money from his employer. Strict anti corruption laws disallow him from running for office till 2014.

"Participants also questioned whether the National Electoral Council would invite international observers to monitor next year’s elections. Lucena stated that the Venezuelan system only admits what they define as “accompaniment,” arguing that “we call upon people that we consider to have the credentials to observe the process, and we invite them.” She noted that Venezuela stopped inviting the Organization of American States and the Carter Center after 2006. Lucena compared Venezuela to Argentina, which has also rejected election observers.

Well anyone can deny people from monitoring elections.
They dont deny all electoral observers, and plus why would they allow any US media outlet or observers who reaptily just play into the BS of "he is a dictator" when clearly other organizations, have called the elections fair?
As stated above

Participants also commented that high-ranking military officials have recently stated that they would not recognize the results of the elections if the opposition won.
Cool.
Its like me saying i dont recognize Bush as my president but guess who has the power. Bush. If the president doenst like those generals well he is commander in chief so to bad.

Lucena responded that the armed forces have always expressed that they are “subordinate to the National Electoral Council” and praised their cooperation in past elections. However, she did not clarify whether the National Electoral Council would condemn the statements.
Whats the problem here?
Sounds like politics...


Venezuela only invites monitors that the deem useful, they do not allow just anyone to monitor the elections.
Neither does any country.
So this is some sort of NGO electorial observer conspiracy? I mean for christ sake the Carter Center has been invited to past elections and called the fair.

Now I wonder why they wont just let anyone monitor their elections? Could this be part of why Venezuelans do not have much faith in the National Electoral Council?
Uhh why would they not have faith? They voted on its creation in 1999....
Not see where you are going with this...

Venezuela Elections: Jennifer McCoy Gives Insider's Account to The Economist In conclusion, the vote itself was secret and free, but the CNE's lack of openness, last-minute changes and internal divisions harmed public confidence in that vital institution both before and after the vote. Divisive rhetoric and intimidating tactics from Chavistas, and the opposition's still-unsubstantiated claims of fraud, have exacerbated Venezuelans' cynicism toward elections. It will take a huge effort by both sides to restore trust in this fundamental democratic right before next month's election for governors and mayors.
"In conclusion, the vote itself was secret and free,"
Thanks for agreeing with me.

Most people consider the HRW as a Left leaning organisation. Just about all Rightwingers will attack anything to do with the HRW
Uhh they actually have been criticized for many things. It is very clearly influenced by US government policy.
World Report 2012: Venezuela | Human Rights Watch

"Events of 2011

DOWNLOADABLE RESOURCES:
World Report Chapter: Venezuela (2012)
The weakening of Venezuela’s democratic system of checks and balances under President Hugo Chávez has contributed to a precarious human rights situation. Without judicial checks on its actions, the government has systematically undermined the right to free expression, workers’ freedom of association, and the ability of human rights groups to protect rights.

Weeks before the new National Assembly—with a substantial opposition composition—took office in January 2011, Chávez’s supporters in the legislature adopted several laws that increased the government’s ability to undercut rights.

Police abuses and impunity remain a grave problem. Prison conditions are deplorable, and fatality rates high due to inmate violence."

[...]Judicial Independence

In 2004 Chávez and his legislative allies conducted a political takeover of the Supreme Court, filling it with government supporters and creating new measures that make it possible to purge justices from the court. In December 2010 the outgoing legislators from Chávez’s political party modified the timeline so they could make appointments before leaving office: they appointed 9 permanent justices and 32 stand-ins, including several allies. Since 2004, the court has largely abdicated its role as a check on executive power, failing to protect fundamental rights enshrined in the constitution.

{..]Legislating by Decree

In December 2010 the outgoing National Assembly passed an enabling law that granted Chávez broad powers to legislate by decree on a wide range of issues for 18 months. The law’s vague provisions could directly impact the exercise of rights by, for example, allowing the president to determine which penalties can be imposed when someone commits a crime. As of November 2011 Chávez had adopted over 20 legislative decrees, including one reinstating crimes previously derogated by the legislature. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of this decree, which criminalized several banking practices, arguing that economic crimes are “crimes against humanity” and could not be decriminalized.

[..]Freedom of Media

Venezuela enjoys a vibrant public debate in which anti-government and pro-government media criticize and defend the president. However, the government has discriminated against media that air political opponents’ views, strengthened the state’s ability to limit free speech and created powerful incentives for government critics to self-censor.

[..]Prosecuting Government Critics

Several prominent critics of Chávez’s government have been targeted for criminal prosecution in recent years. The courts’ lack of independence reduced the chances of them receiving a fair trial.

[..]Human Rights Defenders

Chávez’s government has aggressively sought to discredit human rights defenders. In June Justice Minister Tarek El Aissami accused Humberto Prado of the Venezuelan Observatory of Prisons of “destabilizing the prison system” and having been “an accomplice in the massacre of inmates” in the past. After several official media outlets discredited Prado, he received multiple death threats and left Venezuela for two months.

In July 2010 the Supreme Court ruled that “obtaining financial resources, either directly or indirectly, from foreign states with the intent of using them against the Republic, [and] the interest of the people [could constitute] treason.” That same month members of Chávez’s political party filed a criminal complaint with the Attorney General’s Office, alleging that several local human rights NGOs had committed treason by receiving funding from foreign donors. Over 30 NGOs are currently under investigation, according to local media.

In December 2010 the National Assembly adopted two laws that, if applied to human rights organizations, could severely undermine their ability to work independently. The “Law for the Defense of Political Sovereignty and National Self Determination” blocks NGOS that “defend political rights” or “monitor the performance of public bodies” from receiving international funding. It also imposes stiff fines on organizations that invite foreigners who express opinions that offend institutions or undermine national sovereignty. The “Organic Law on Social Control”—which regulates the work of organizations and individuals that have an impact on “general or collective interests”—states that individuals must follow the law’s socialist principles and values: those who violate the law may face civil, administrative, or criminal sanctions.

Police Abuses

Violent crime is rampant in Venezuela, where extrajudicial killings by security agents remain a problem. The minister of the interior and justice has estimated that police commit one of every five crimes. According to the most recent official statistics, law enforcement agents allegedly killed 7,998 people between January 2000 and the first third of 2009.

[...]Prison Conditions

Venezuelan prisons are among the most violent in Latin America. Weak security, deteriorating infrastructure, overcrowding, insufficient and poorly trained guards, and corruption allow armed gangs to effectively control prisons. Hundreds of violent prison deaths occur every year. In June 2011, at least 25 people were killed and over 60 seriously injured, including prisoners and National Guard members, after clashes between inmates in the El Rodeo prisons.

Labor Rights

The National Electoral Council (CNE), a public authority, has the power to organize and certify all union elections, violating international standards that guarantee workers the right to elect their representatives in full freedom, according to conditions they determine. Established unions whose elections have not been CNE-certified may not participate in collective bargaining.

For several years the government has promised to reform the relevant labor and electoral laws to restrict state interference in union elections. Reforms that explicitly state that union elections held without CNE participation are legally valid were still pending before the National Assembly at this writing

Key International Actors

Venezuela’s government has increasingly rejected international monitoring of its human rights record. In September 2011 the Supreme Court president held that Venezuela will “respect all international agreements only if … international bodies respect [Venezuelan] sovereignty and … jurisdiction.”

This is in response to reports done on up and coming Latin America democracies and Venezuela
Scholars Respond to HRW’s Kenneth Roth’s Riposte on Venezuelan Human Rights » Council on Hemispheric Affairs
 
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Uhh how did they "villonize the OAS"? They villionized this guy who called Venezuela a dictatorship. Why would they allow a country back into their country after the US supported a coup against Chavez?
Plus numerous other NGO's and monitors have called the elections fair.
http://democracychange.com/2011 FDA Electoral Fairness Report on Venezuela.pdf
https://nacla.org/node/5741
Venezuela Ranked Number One in Electoral Fairness by Foundation for Democratic Advancement | venezuelanalysis.com
Venezuelan Elections Show Democracy at Work | Common Dreams
So on one hand you consider that Carter and OAS are good source of honest opinion but you turn around and assert that they are puppets of out Government? And id you miss the part where Chávez is only allowing biased observers?


Leopoldo López played a key role in the coup against Chavez. I wonder how we would treat people if they played a key role in a coup in the US? He also took illegal political contributions, and illegally accepting money from his employer. Strict anti corruption laws disallow him from running for office till 2014.
Interesting and what would you call it if the military was deployed in the US to stop a crime wave? And what if we named this detail the People's Guard? Would you call this a police state?
Watch this video. BTW "bichos" means “animals” which is what the so called People's Guard is calling the prisoners. I am pretty sure that mortar fire is not how you are supposed to stop a prison riot. I wonder if this is what Chavez meant by he helped stop the riot?

Well anyone can deny people from monitoring elections.
They dont deny all electoral observers, and plus why would they allow any US media outlet or observers who reaptily just play into the BS of "he is a dictator" when clearly other organizations, have called the elections fair?
As stated above
But we are not talking about the US now are we?

Cool.
Its like me saying i dont recognize Bush as my president but guess who has the power. Bush. If the president doenst like those generals well he is commander in chief so to bad.
Yea but since it is illegal to own guns in Venezuela now the military have much more power.

Whats the problem here?
Sounds like politics...
LMAO you are so busy splitting hairs that you forgot what the point was of the quote.


Neither does any country.
So this is some sort of NGO electorial observer conspiracy? I mean for christ sake the Carter Center has been invited to past elections and called the fair.
Ah you missed the point of this quote Divisive rhetoric and intimidating tactics from Chavistas, Such tactics show that Chavez is not an angel and should be watched..

Uhh why would they not have faith? They voted on its creation in 1999....
Not see where you are going with this...
If you have nothing to hide why turn away the OAS when they confirmed the elections in the past?


"In conclusion, the vote itself was secret and free,"
Thanks for agreeing with me.
Agree with what? Agree that Chavez is not open to the public? How exactly would this secrecy fit in with a country ran by the people?

Uhh they actually have been criticized for many things. It is very clearly influenced by US government policy.

This is in response to reports done on up and coming Latin America democracies and Venezuela
Scholars Respond to HRW’s Kenneth Roth’s Riposte on Venezuelan Human Rights » Council on Hemispheric Affairs
The best that you could find is a biased group?


Here is a interesting letter: "Dear President Chávez,

I join thousands of people around the world in expressing my profound concern about the deterioration of human rights in Venezuela—especially civil and political rights.

I wish to register my distress regarding the political prisoners held by your government. Otto Gebauer, Raúl Díaz Peña, Humberto Quintero, Iván Simonovis, Lázaro Forero, Henry Vivas, and others have been imprisoned despite clear violations of due process, the rule of law, the Venezuelan constitution, and various international treaties to which Venezuela is signatory.

Mr. President, I respectfully request that you immediately release every Venezuelan political prisoner. Your continued disregard for their fundamental rights undermines not only your democratic credentials but also the Venezuelan state’s commitment to respect human rights.

I am sending copies of this letter to numerous international organizations and individuals who defend human rights, to foreign governments, and to your colleagues in the Venezuelan government. "

Tell Chávez: Demand Human Rights of Venezuela's Political Prisoners' Be Respected - Tell Chávez Now
 
Cancer is a horrible,horrible thing, I agree on that :(

on the other hand... it is also amazing to me the support this man, apparently has, in this thread.

I guess they support Hugo's shutdown of the free press/freedom of expression...
 
Chavez's job is to take care of Venezuelans, not the USA Korporations. He's been doing a good job. Some of the reader's seem to think that USA Korporations are the good guys. Wrong!
 
I guess they support Hugo's shutdown of the free press/freedom of expression...

To the people who support the likes of Chavez and Castro and Mugabe and the tin pot in Iran, freedom of the press and freedom of political expression aren't nearly as important as good old out and out anti-americanism and anti-westernism. It just doesn't matter to them, as long as the despot is saying the right things about the U.S.
 
Chavez's job is to take care of Venezuelans, not the USA Korporations. He's been doing a good job. Some of the reader's seem to think that USA Korporations are the good guys. Wrong!
No one said anything about Corporations. Personally I really do not care about corporations in other countries at all. Those corporations took a risk and they new it was a risk, plus why cry for a corporation its not like they are a person lol. And why put USA in front of the word corporation? Do you seriously believe that all corporations are American?
Nationalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You should get your facts straight before going off on other readers:

2007 On May 1, 2007, Venezuela stripped the world's biggest oil companies of operational control over massive Orinoco Belt crude projects, a controversial component in President Hugo Chavez's nationalization drive. U.S. companies ConocoPhillips, Chevron, Exxon Mobil, Britain's BP, Norway's Statoil and France's Total agreed to obey a decree to transfer operational control on Tuesday, although the OPEC nation complained ConocoPhillips was somewhat resistant. http://archive.newsmax.com/money/archives/articles/2007/5/1/083623.cfm
2008 On April 3, 2008, President Hugo Chavez ordered the nationalization of the cement industry.[35]Mexico and domestic
2008 On April 9, 2008, Hugo Chavez ordered the nationalization of Venezuelan steel mill Sidor, in which Luxembourg-based Ternium currently holds a 60% stake. Sidor employees and the Government hold a 20% stake respectively.[36]German
2008 On August 19, 2008, Hugo Chavez ordered the take-over of a cement plant owned and operated by Cemex, an international cement producer. While shares of Cemex fell on the New York Stock Exchange, the cement plant comprises only about 5% of the company's business, and is not expected to adversely affect the company's ability to produce in other markets. Chavez has been looking to nationalize the concrete and steel industries of his country to meet home building and infrastructure goals.[37]Mexico
2009 On February 28, 2009, Hugo Chavez ordered the army to take over all rice processing and packaging plants.[38]domestic
2010 On January 20, 2010, Hugo Chavez signed an ordinance to nationalize six supermarkets in Venezuela under the system of retail stores of a French company because of increasing price and speculation hoarding illicit.[39]France
2010 On June 24, 2010, Venezuela announced the intention to nationalize oil drilling rigs belonging to the U.S. company Helmerich & Payne.[40]USA
2010 On October 25, 2010, Chavez announced that the government was nationalizing two U.S.-owned Owens-Illinois glass-manufacturing plants.[41]USA
2010 On October 31, 2010, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said his government will take over the Sidetur steel manufacturing plant. Sidetur is owned by Vivencia, which had two mineral plants appropriated by the government in 2008.[41]
Domestic

Plus the media take overs were domestically owned as well. So obviously you are either misinformed or you are trying to be dishonest so which is it?
 
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Just face it Chavez is not a good example of anything except state ran corruption.
 
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Actually the 2004 referendum was actually stated to be fair. The OAS and the Carter Center who were the 2 main groups monitoring the elections at the time reported them to be free and fair.

"
After the Electoral Counsel stated Chavez won decisively, his opponents were quick to claim fraud, citing no evidence other than the internalized belief that it was impossible for Chávez to have such support. Such claims kept the recall from simmering into the second day, though they were eventually dismissed as the electoral observers, including Jimmy Carter and OAS leader Cesar Gaveria deemed the results to be fair. The fervently anti-Chávez bloggster and former NY Times reporter Francisco Toro put it as such on the day after the results.

But it looks very much to me like the government won fair and square. If it didn't, it'll come out in the paper-trail audit, which CNE's Jorge Rodriguez has already agreed to.
The audit option, which would manually recount the paper ballots that each individual put into the ballot box, thus dismissing any myth of computer fraud, was rejected the next day by the same opposition leaders who cried so hard to make sure they get one."
The Implications and Explanation of Venezuela's Recall Election. | the narcosphere
The Repeatedly Re-Elected Autocrat

The Carter Center clearly has a conflict of interest they were, in part, architects and quasi administrators for the Venezuelan government beginning in 1998. For the Carter Center to find impropriety in the voting would be admitting they were not effective in instilling democracy in that country. They should have stepped aside, but, they did not and their findings will be viewed through the lens of a party in interest in declaring the recall was proper. Indeed, there were many pre-recall voting problems and improper practices that the carter center knew about and acknowledged the result of which effected the vote itself.

The Carter Center:"since 1998, the Center has assisted Venezuelans in developing sound democratic practices. The Carter center appears to have had a conflict of interest. According to Jennifer L. McCoy who led the Carter Center delegation, “the government and the opposition had called on international actors to mediate their conflict, and the Tripartite International Working Group made up of the Carter Center, OAS, and UNDP was formed in July 2002. After an agreement was reached in May 2003, facilitated primarily by the OAS secretary general with support from the Carter Center, the government and opposition invited the OAS and Carter Center to monitor the implementation of that agreement —namely the entire recall referendum process.”"~ Jennifer L. McCoy, Director, Americas Program, The Carter Center

The voting machines: "As Chavez was facing a recall, Venezuela's National Electoral Council, or CNE, announced plans to replace the nation's 6-year-old U.S.-made optical-scan voting machines. The five-member council, which is dominated by Chavez supporters, awarded the $91-million contract to Smartmatic, maker of the voting machine hardware, and Bizta, maker of the software that programmed the ballots and tabulated the votes. The companies are run jointly by two 30-year-old Venezuelan engineers, whose machines had never been used in an election.

As it turned out, the Venezuelan government owned 28 percent, or 3 million shares, of Bizta through investments in a venture capital fund. A top official from Venezuela's science ministry, who helped Chavez get elected in 1998, was also a member of Bizta's board of directors.

Two American election observers, Curtis Reed and Steve Henley, a Democratic candidate running for supervisor of elections in Hillsborough County, Florida, were invited to Venezuela by the opposition parties and sent a letter to Capitol Hill describing what they saw. Months before the election, they said, the government granted citizenship and voting rights to hundreds of thousands of foreigners while withdrawing voting rights from other citizens living abroad. The CNE also reassigned opposition voters to polling places hours away from their homes to discourage them from voting and replaced thousands of accredited poll workers who signed the recall petition with poll workers who supported Chavez. "

"Jennifer McCoy, who led the Carter Center delegation, said the Center documented the pre-election problems but that during the election they saw very little intimidation. "It was an amazingly calm day for having so many people standing in line for hours and hours," she said. "The fact that there was not more violence was absolutely amazing."

http://www.tfd.org.tw/docs/dj0201/Jennifer L. McCoy.pdf
International Peacekeeping and Human Rights Programs - Carter Center Activities by Country
E-Vote Rigging in Venezuela?

As far as your other sources: A blogger who is admittedly pro Chavez and a self proclaimed clearing house...How about some peer reviewed studies.



Ehhh whats the problem here?
Civil rights violations, intimidation practices and unlawful imprisonment to name a few issues.
 
So on one hand you consider that Carter and OAS are good source of honest opinion but you turn around and assert that they are puppets of out Government? And id you miss the part where Chávez is only allowing biased observers?
Where have i ever claimed that the OAS and the Carter Center are "puppets"? I have claimed other various organizations and especially the Media in this country are pretty much puppets when it comes to Latin American policy.

Interesting and what would you call it if the military was deployed in the US to stop a crime wave? And what if we named this detail the People's Guard? Would you call this a police state?
Dont know what this has to do with anything from the above quoted subject..
But ok...
Caracas is one of the most violent cities in Latin America. The police are extremely corrupt. The people of Caracas and Venezuela have been calling for something to be done about crime. And this is what the current gov came up with. Creating a new unit to stop crime. And it has shown results. Crime is down 53%.

Watch this video. BTW "bichos" means “animals” which is what the so called People's Guard is calling the prisoners. I am pretty sure that mortar fire is not how you are supposed to stop a prison riot. I wonder if this is what Chavez meant by he helped stop the riot?
So it is Chavez's fault that guards abuse their power?
And mortar fire? More like tear gas..

But we are not talking about the US now are we?
Just using it as an example.
Why not answer the question? It seems like you are saying, "Well the world is the US's playground".


Yea but since it is illegal to own guns in Venezuela now the military have much more power.
Yes cuz the only way to fight a military is by legally purchasing guns right? :roll:
Its like the people were going to rise up in Venezuela any day now right?

By the way having one of the most violent crime driven country in Latin America this might not be a bad idea.


LMAO you are so busy splitting hairs that you forgot what the point was of the quote.
Uhh no not at all.. I know what we are talking about.
But you didnt explain. What is the problem here?




Ah you missed the point of this quote Divisive rhetoric and intimidating tactics from Chavistas, Such tactics show that Chavez is not an angel and should be watched..
Divisive rhetoric? Are you kidding me? Look at our government. Look at politics historically. OF COURSE YOU ARE GOING TO BE DIVISIVE!
And no one is an angel.


If you have nothing to hide why turn away the OAS when they confirmed the elections in the past?
:shrug:
No one knows.



Agree with what? Agree that Chavez is not open to the public? How exactly would this secrecy fit in with a country ran by the people?
:doh
That the elections were fair and free.... That is what the report concluded. And that is what i have been stating for a very long time on here, and this report agrees with me.


The best that you could find is a biased group?
Bias how? Because their research is about democracy, human rights, corruption, social justice, equal rights, in Latin America?



Here is a interesting letter: "Dear President Chávez,

I join thousands of people around the world in expressing my profound concern about the deterioration of human rights in Venezuela—especially civil and political rights.

I wish to register my distress regarding the political prisoners held by your government. Otto Gebauer, Raúl Díaz Peña, Humberto Quintero, Iván Simonovis, Lázaro Forero, Henry Vivas, and others have been imprisoned despite clear violations of due process, the rule of law, the Venezuelan constitution, and various international treaties to which Venezuela is signatory.

Mr. President, I respectfully request that you immediately release every Venezuelan political prisoner. Your continued disregard for their fundamental rights undermines not only your democratic credentials but also the Venezuelan state’s commitment to respect human rights.

I am sending copies of this letter to numerous international organizations and individuals who defend human rights, to foreign governments, and to your colleagues in the Venezuelan government. "

Tell Chávez: Demand Human Rights of Venezuela's Political Prisoners' Be Respected - Tell Chávez Now

Cool. I can write a letter to and say USA is opressing me.. :(
 
Where have i ever claimed that the OAS and the Carter Center are "puppets"? I have claimed other various organizations and especially the Media in this country are pretty much puppets when it comes to Latin American policy.
you implied it with this sentence: "Why would they allow a country back into their country after the US supported a coup against Chavez?" You also confirmed that OAS is a NGO not the Government. Meaning that you asserted that OAS is an puupet of the US Government. Come on man pay attention.


Dont know what this has to do with anything from the above quoted subject..
But ok...
Caracas is one of the most violent cities in Latin America. The police are extremely corrupt. The people of Caracas and Venezuela have been calling for something to be done about crime. And this is what the current gov came up with. Creating a new unit to stop crime. And it has shown results. Crime is down 53%.
The police are indeed extremely corrupt and who do the police answer too and who are the police working with? Ill answer that for you; Chavez and the People Guard. Dont believe me go look it up.


So it is Chavez's fault that guards abuse their power?
And mortar fire? More like tear gas..
Yes it is Chavez's fault he is the one that everything in the country falls on. Ok so they are shooting tear gas at animals that makes it not as bad right? 70 prisoners died that night from that automatic gun fire that is heard in that video while the Peoples Guard not guards laughed. Looks more like war than a prison riot.


Just using it as an example.
Why not answer the question? It seems like you are saying, "Well the world is the US's playground".
No, you said that I did not. Nor did I imply it.



Yes cuz the only way to fight a military is by legally purchasing guns right? :roll:
Its like the people were going to rise up in Venezuela any day now right?

By the way having one of the most violent crime driven country in Latin America this might not be a bad idea.
Chavez has been president since 1998 and needed the military to curb violent crime? He must really such at his job of fighting corruption.


Uhh no not at all.. I know what we are talking about.
But you didnt explain. What is the problem here?
The problem is that you are not being honest.





Divisive rhetoric? Are you kidding me? Look at our government. Look at politics historically. OF COURSE YOU ARE GOING TO BE DIVISIVE!
And no one is an angel.
Quit trying to make this about the US, the subject is not a comparison it is about Chavez. The statement that I quoted was pointing out that while the elections appeared legit that the Chavistas were engaging in anti-democratic behavior. Which means that democracy is not sacred to Chavez. True no one is an angel but then I already knew that Chavez is no angel.


:shrug:
No one knows.
ok



:doh
That the elections were fair and free.... That is what the report concluded. And that is what i have been stating for a very long time on here, and this report agrees with me.
Free legally but not socially.


Bias how? Because their research is about democracy, human rights, corruption, social justice, equal rights, in Latin America?
It is well known their bias dont try to pretend that everyone doesnt know.





Cool. I can write a letter to and say USA is opressing me.. :(
True you could do whatever you please, but one must wonder why you ignored the point of the letter.
 
To the people who support the likes of Chavez and Castro and Mugabe and the tin pot in Iran, freedom of the press and freedom of political expression aren't nearly as important as good old out and out anti-americanism and anti-westernism. It just doesn't matter to them, as long as the despot is saying the right things about the U.S.

How does the idealist rant go again?...something like: Well if the US would just mind its own business, we wouldn't have these problems.
 
He is asshole because he is marxist ,very nice logic..
at least he doesnt devote himself to money.:roll:

Um, those that force marxism and communism and socialism on others, just about always control the wealth and live a life of extreme extravagance.
 
I know that many occupiers support Hugo Chavez. These same occupiers boast about photos of mass protests as proof of what the people want. Here is a photo from an Anti-Chavez rally in support of recalling Chavez.
None of the occupy protest have shown this type of support on the streets.

640px-Anti-chavez_march.jpg
 
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you implied it with this sentence: "Why would they allow a country back into their country after the US supported a coup against Chavez?" You also confirmed that OAS is a NGO not the Government. Meaning that you asserted that OAS is an puupet of the US Government.
Sure i confirmed that the OAS is not a NGO that does not mean it leads to that the OAS is a puppet of the US Gov; That is huge strawman argument right there. Im saying why would Venezuela a member of the OAS allow the US a member of the OAS after being called a "tyrannical dictator, and non democratic" and why would they allow US gov supervisors into their country after they supported a coup against them?

Come on man pay attention.
I am:cool:



The police are indeed extremely corrupt
Yes they are

and who do the police answer too and who are the police working with? Ill answer that for you; Chavez and the People Guard. Dont believe me go look it up.
Do we need to learn how a government Bureaucracy works? Its not like Chavez can say "no no no dont be assholes to prisoners right now. Now dont shoot those tear gas at them". Its not like he is on a magical cloud looking down on all Venezuela. I know you wanna think that, but cmon lets be mature, educated adults here and try to be realistic.
This is like blaming Obama for the crime rate in Baltimore or DC...



Yes it is Chavez's fault he is the one that everything in the country falls on.
Right.....

Ok so they are shooting tear gas at animals that makes it not as bad right? 70 prisoners died that night from that automatic gun fire that is heard in that video while the Peoples Guard not guards laughed. Looks more like war than a prison riot.
You should read about the conditions of Venezuelan prisons. Prisons are ran by the prisoners themselves while the guards simply keep the perimeter secure.
"were originally designed to house 750 prisoners, one fifth of the actual 3,500 they were holding at the time riots began on Thursday. In late April of this year, prisoners at El Rodeo also took 22 officials hostage ".. Hostage taking=very serious situation. Especially when, "
Heavy arms like AK-47 assault rifles are known to be circulating among El Rodeo prisoners...thousands of troops attempted to confiscate weapons, but that battle led instead to a stalemate between them and a smaller band of prisoners. Many inmates have since been evacuated from El Rodeo for their safety."
And this is all not Chavez's fault it began way before him. "Venezuelan prison violence predates Chávez. Shortly before he took office in 1999, in fact, international criticism forced authorities to tear down Caracas' Retén de Catia, which was one of the most squalid and barbaric prisons in the western hemisphere. In 1994, the Sabaneta prison in Maracaibo saw 130 inmates burned or hacked to death with machetes. "
All in all prison violence has been decreasing sennce Chavez has taken power.

Venezuela's Prison Riot: Why Is Hugo Chávez Silent? - TIME
Behind the Venezuelan Prison Riots: the State of Venezuela

And do you have a source on this 70 people died in one night claim?


No, you said that I did not. Nor did I imply it.
Just saying its what it makes you seem like...
And still why not answer the question?




Chavez has been president since 1998 and needed the military to curb violent crime? He must really such at his job of fighting corruption.
Hmm replacing the corrupt police and adding military and creating a new police force to curb crime is "corrupt"?
Really... People use the military to cut crime all the time.......I mean even the great ol USA brings in the national guard throughout history.


The problem is that you are not being honest.
'
Please explain how im not "being honest"?






Quit trying to make this about the US, the subject is not a comparison it is about Chavez. The statement that I quoted was pointing out that while the elections appeared legit that the Chavistas were engaging in anti-democratic behavior. Which means that democracy is not sacred to Chavez. True no one is an angel but then I already knew that Chavez is no angel.
What anti democratic behavior. THEY ADMITTED THE ELECTIONS WERE FREE AND FAIR. Meaning you have the freedom to vote for whoever, you are not coerced to vote for someone, each candidate had a fair chance, and they were internationally monitored.



Free legally but not socially.
Explain what that means? IF they are not free socially then they are infact breaking the law correct?



It is well known their bias dont try to pretend that everyone doesnt know.
What are they bias about? Is it because you say so or someone says so?






True you could do whatever you please, but one must wonder why you ignored the point of the letter.
What that someone is not happy?
 
Sure i confirmed that the OAS is not a NGO that does not mean it leads to that the OAS is a puppet of the US Gov; That is huge strawman argument right there. Im saying why would Venezuela a member of the OAS allow the US a member of the OAS after being called a "tyrannical dictator, and non democratic" and why would they allow US gov supervisors into their country after they supported a coup against them?


I am:cool:




Yes they are


Do we need to learn how a government Bureaucracy works? Its not like Chavez can say "no no no dont be assholes to prisoners right now. Now dont shoot those tear gas at them". Its not like he is on a magical cloud looking down on all Venezuela. I know you wanna think that, but cmon lets be mature, educated adults here and try to be realistic.
This is like blaming Obama for the crime rate in Baltimore or DC...




Right.....


You should read about the conditions of Venezuelan prisons. Prisons are ran by the prisoners themselves while the guards simply keep the perimeter secure.
"were originally designed to house 750 prisoners, one fifth of the actual 3,500 they were holding at the time riots began on Thursday. In late April of this year, prisoners at El Rodeo also took 22 officials hostage ".. Hostage taking=very serious situation. Especially when, "
Heavy arms like AK-47 assault rifles are known to be circulating among El Rodeo prisoners...thousands of troops attempted to confiscate weapons, but that battle led instead to a stalemate between them and a smaller band of prisoners. Many inmates have since been evacuated from El Rodeo for their safety."
And this is all not Chavez's fault it began way before him. "Venezuelan prison violence predates Chávez. Shortly before he took office in 1999, in fact, international criticism forced authorities to tear down Caracas' Retén de Catia, which was one of the most squalid and barbaric prisons in the western hemisphere. In 1994, the Sabaneta prison in Maracaibo saw 130 inmates burned or hacked to death with machetes. "
All in all prison violence has been decreasing sennce Chavez has taken power.

Venezuela's Prison Riot: Why Is Hugo Chávez Silent? - TIME
Behind the Venezuelan Prison Riots: the State of Venezuela

And do you have a source on this 70 people died in one night claim?



Just saying its what it makes you seem like...
And still why not answer the question?





Hmm replacing the corrupt police and adding military and creating a new police force to curb crime is "corrupt"?
Really... People use the military to cut crime all the time.......I mean even the great ol USA brings in the national guard throughout history.


'
Please explain how im not "being honest"?







What anti democratic behavior. THEY ADMITTED THE ELECTIONS WERE FREE AND FAIR. Meaning you have the freedom to vote for whoever, you are not coerced to vote for someone, each candidate had a fair chance, and they were internationally monitored.




Explain what that means? IF they are not free socially then they are infact breaking the law correct?




What are they bias about? Is it because you say so or someone says so?







What that someone is not happy?


Hugo Chavez has been president since 1998, this we all know. We are all also aware that it is now the year 2012. less than a Month ago there was another prison riot. The cause was basically the same as the one that was in that video. Venezuela is raking billions in oil money why cant they pull every citizen out of poverty? Why must prisons be over populated to an extreme where it is inhumane to treat people in such a foul way? Why is that Chavez can travel to Cuba for cancer treatment while his people rot in prisons and on the streets?


Seriously how come there is some much corruption in Venezuela STILL? Hugo Chavez even ruled by decree and was unable to stop his country from having poverty and run away corruption? What exactly has Chavez achieved with his brand of Socialism in the 14 years that he has ruled?
 
Another one bites the dust.

Now, who's the next troublesome politician to die?

.....Castro?
 
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